.223 ammo

[Warp]

I never told you what you should've done, I only related what I have done. Honestly, I doubt that anyone cares what you do, don't do or will do, so you can stop apologizing. No one cares!

I must have read too much into this

Yes it did. You said it yourself. It's called Newtown.

Or are you the type of guy that waits until there's a fire before thinking its necessary to buy an extinguisher?

 

[David E]

Imma keep shooting because I prepared. Not sitting around counting my beans.

Kanye, would you please let us know how many rounds you think are "adequate?"

 

[David E]

I must have read too much into this

You certainly did.

I'd clarify it for you, but you'd read too much into it.

I hope you find the ammo you're looking for.

 

[breakingcontact]

My Kanye cover has been blown!

Adequate is different for all of us I suppose. Different shooting habits. Different expectations of when normalcy will return.

I dont regularly shoot 223/556 so it doesn't take much to make an adequate amount for me.

 

[taliv]

But prices I paid in the 90's and before mean nothing now, other than for comparisons sake.

Currently, Natchez has had 100 baggie-packs of bullets come in recently at $12, or .12 cents each. Powder is about .07 cents, primers add .04 cents for .23 cents per shot. Which is still better than the .35 cents cited earlier as a smoking deal.

late last year, week or two before the election i think, i bought 5000 75g OTM bullets for 11 cents each. also got pull-down mil surplus powder for $85/8lb and primers for $25/k. that works out to 11 + 3.8 + 2.5 = 17.3 cents per match round. i think we will see those prices again. i hope so, because at this rate that will only last me til late summer.

 

[David E]

But then you need to account for the cost of the equipment.

It depends how much you shoot. Since you blast over 400 rds of .223 each session, maybe you shoot enough to come out ahead pretty quickly. It depends how often you blow thru 400+ rds.

I also believe you need to account for the cost of the brass,

It's wise to pick up those 400 pieces of brass. You can reload each case 10 or more times.

if you collected the brass but didn't reload it you could then sell and use the money to offset the cost of your factory ammo.

At what, scrap brass price? Locally, the "cheap range .223 brass" is $150 per K, far above scrap prices.

And you need to account for your time.

Yeah, but 10 minutes here and there isn't hard to find. I use those 10 minutes to crank out 100 rds of .223 or 200 rds of 9mm.

I have observed that reloaders sugar coat things and kinda sorta do whatever they can to present their hobby in as positive a light as they possibly can, which necessarily dictates maybe not being 100% truthful (not lying, but not telling the WHOLE TRUTH, either). There are plenty of expenses that seem to just get ignored by a lot of the guys who quote what their ammo costs.

If you wisely picked up your brass, it's like getting it for free, especially if you pick up brass left by other shooters. But even if you buy 1000 cases for $150, you have .15 cents per. Load it 10x, now it's 1 1/2 cents each, so add 1.5 cents to the .23 cents cited previously.

[quoteSuch as the ever popular quoting of components purchased 10-20 years ago.[/quote]

You sure go out of your way, don't you.

I cited BOTH costs, past and present. Reread the post.

Plus I am <30 years old...

That explains a lot....

Look, I don't care if you decide to reload. I only shared how it has helped me build my stock for much less cost than factory ammo.

 

[Skylerbone]

What is this "Factory Ammo" you speak of? Like rimfire?

I admit I bought 3 boxes of -06 two years ago as I was concerned our neighbors to the North might confiscate my hand loads. I've got a few boxes of bullets and primers from somewhere around '87 or '88 that surfaced while clearing out some ammo boxes I had stowed but my figures are always based on current prices. As most of my presses are probably older than Warp, I've discontinued the idea of amortizing the price per round.

 

[David E]

I still figure cost per round sometimes, but like Skylerbone, my reloading equipment has paid for itself many times over.

 

[Ignition Override]

As soon as people -who can afford- it learn to save cash and plan ahead by buying extra ammo (a difficult concept to grasp), just In Case we have unforeseen, extremely tragic events, they won't feel compelled to pay these prices.

They never should have assumed that everything would remain hunky dory.
Recent, well-publicized mass shootings in the US were a pretty good "hint" about the momentum.

 

[breakingcontact]

^re^ some of these shooters may be brand new or have stopped being just into guns for hunting and changed their mentality and realized being armed with a serious rifle may be a good idea.

Hate how we turn against each other and don't welcome the new guys.

I prepared. But I could have been one of those who didn't if circumstances were slightly different. Yes I had the prudence to prepare but I was also fortunate.

 

[btg3]

... learn to save cash and plan ahead...

This is not taught by our public education system and is not the norm in the USA. It requires the exercise of personal responsibility, rather than dependence on others. My expectations are not high for sudden change among the citizens.

 

[Skylerbone]

Every one of us brings a unique perspective to the table with our own bias and experience. While I agree with the sentiment that someone in my position should be well provisioned at this point there are a good number of people still in the infancy stage of their hobby or their career or their personal life.

Now if I caught some 20 year old begging for gas money to fuel his new Camero I'd be quick to give him the #1 hand signal but I consider it a privilege to help out folks who might not otherwise have the means to shoot much. It may not be 400 rounds at a time but I've taught a few how to reload to stay on the legal side of access to my ammo. They help and it's theirs.

 

[jrdolall]

Ahh condescension. I learned long ago that there are always people that are smarter than me and these types of threads just reinforce that knowledge.

I have plenty of money and can buy pretty much as much ammo as I want. I have all I need for most of my guns but I still got caught flat footed on 22LR. I just didn't see a run on that ammo. Now I had over 10,000 rounds on hand before Sandy Hook but we can easily go through 2k on a weekend. I was able to buy a few bricks online after the stores ran out but if things don't get back on the shelf I will have to cut back on my .22 usage.

I guess I am a newbie and should have expected this.

 

[David E]

What's a little scary is how quickly things went down the tube. I mean, nothing had been officially introduced to start the gun/ammo run and the shortage has reached far, wide and deep. Dillon has a 4-6 week delay, which is going pretty far down the line as far as shooting goes.

I, for one, have relearned the lesson of making sure I have more than enough for every caliber.

 

[btg3]

Ahh condescension

An oyxmoron if ever there was one.
Thanks for the chuckle.

 

[Warp]

late last year, week or two before the election i think, i bought 5000 75g OTM bullets for 11 cents each. also got pull-down mil surplus powder for $85/8lb and primers for $25/k. that works out to 11 + 3.8 + 2.5 = 17.3 cents per match round. i think we will see those prices again. i hope so, because at this rate that will only last me til late summer.

You forgot the most expensive component, brass.

 

[Warp]

At what, scrap brass price? Locally, the "cheap range .223 brass" is $150 per K, far above scrap prices.

Are you saying that around there the brass is worth $0.15 each? So I could sell my brass to get almost half of the cost of the factory ammo back? If reloaded rounds cos $0.23, how does reloading saving money?

The spent brass having a $ value is my point. When reloaders calculate how much their reloads cost and compare it to factory, they ignore the value of the brass. If a non-reloader collects their once-fired brass, organizes it, and sells it, they get noticeable money back, which makes the factory ammo less expensive, and alters the "this is how much I save per shot" calculations associated with reloading.

 

[Skylerbone]

Condescending. Could be seen as that, it's all in the presentation.

And just where did you buy ammo and PMAGS for that price last week? Fairytale Land?

You got a really good price on that ammo and PMAGS. Any chance of sharing your source?

The not so subtle differences can be the difference between a helping hand or a corresponding backhand.

As for brass, normal price is far less than currently advertised prices, of which there aren't many takers. As I mentioned, scrap yards sell it for under $2.50/lb. here. Were I more motivated and without other commitment I might purchase a fair quantity to resell or trade. I've offered the source however and I doubt my town is unique in having a fair supply.

Claiming brass has a marketable value may be true but you can reload it many times while selling it only once. If it brought you $10.00/100 market value in fair times vs. loading it 10X for a reloadable cost of $10/1,000 or .01/round you can see that this additional cost to the reloader is marginal at best. When the necks split you can take that to the scrap yard and collect $1.00 for it further reducing the price per round to .009/round. That would bring the cost of my last several hundred rounds to .269/round for VMax. .269 X 1,000 = $269.00/case for premium ammo.

 

[Warp]

Could be seen as that, it's all in the presentation.

And just where did you buy ammo and PMAGS for that price last week? Fairytale Land?

You got a really good price on that ammo and PMAGS. Any chance of sharing your source?

The not so subtle differences can be the difference between a helping hand or a corresponding backhand.

Whose/what prices are you referring to?

Maybe I got threads confused, but I don't even recall PMAGs in this one?

 

[David E]

Are you saying that around there the brass is worth $0.15 each?

The gunstore sells it for that.

So I could sell my brass to get almost half of the cost of the factory ammo back?

Where, exactly, are you currently finding .223 ammo for .35 cents each? One poster mentioned it and you were all over it, indicating that you haven't been able to find it at that price.

If reloaded rounds cos $0.23, how does reloading saving money?

Reread the above.

When reloaders calculate how much their reloads cost and compare it to factory, they ignore the value of the brass.

I included it. Reread my previous posts.

If a non-reloader collects their once-fired brass, organizes it, and sells it, they get noticeable money back

That is an option.

which makes the factory ammo less expensive, and alters the "this is how much I save per shot" calculations associated with reloading.

There are other reasons to reload, but let's look at it one more time. Academy is currently selling .223 for about $14 (with tax) for a box of 20, which works out to be .70 cents per round, or $700 per 1000. You recover all your brass, list it and sell it for $200. You buy another 1000 for $700, minus the $200, paying "only" $500 per K, or .50 cents per round. Meanwhile, I'm still cranking them out at .23 cents per round, or $230 per 1000.

Yeah, your way saves more money,,,,,

 

[Warp]

Condescending. Could be seen as that, it's all in the presentation.

And just where did you buy ammo and PMAGS for that price last week? Fairytale Land?

You got a really good price on that ammo and PMAGS. Any chance of sharing your source?

The not so subtle differences can be the difference between a helping hand or a corresponding backhand.

As for brass, normal price is far less than currently advertised prices, of which there aren't many takers. As I mentioned, scrap yards sell it for under $2.50/lb. here. Were I more motivated and without other commitment I might purchase a fair quantity to resell or trade. I've offered the source however and I doubt my town is unique in having a fair supply.

Claiming brass has a marketable value may be true but you can reload it many times while selling it only once. If it brought you $10.00/100 market value in fair times vs. loading it 10X for a reloadable cost of $10/1,000 or .01/round you can see that this additional cost to the reloader is marginal at best. When the necks split you can take that to the scrap yard and collect $1.00 for it further reducing the price per round to .009/round. That would bring the cost of my last several hundred rounds to .269/round for VMax. .269 X 1,000 = $269.00/case for premium ammo.

Quoting again because I saw you edited. What are you talking about PMAGs for? I searched the thread and your post was the first one with the word "pmag" or "pmags".

If you start out with a full price case of factory ammo, and collect all the brass, and sell it at $10/100 that's $100 for the case. Take $100 off your next case of ammo, and it becomes more comparable to the reloaded cost. And now you have brand new brass to do the same thing with for the next case. So it really isn't a once vs ten times thing, because every time you sell the brass to buy factory ammo, voila, you have another 1k pieces of once fired brass.

 

[Warp]

Where, exactly, are you currently finding .223 ammo for .35 cents each? One poster mentioned it and you were all over it, indicating that you haven't been able to find it at that price.

Oh, I'm not. As far as I am concerned that deal simply doesn't exist. You are right about that/I agree with you 100%.

There are other reasons to reload, but let's look at it one more time. Academy is currently selling .223 for about $14 (with tax) for a box of 20, which works out to be .70 cents per round, or $700 per 1000. You recover all your brass, list it and sell it for $200. You buy another 1000 for $700, minus the $200, paying "only" $500 per K, or .50 cents per round. Meanwhile, I'm still cranking them out at .23 cents per round, or $230 per 1000.

Yeah, your way saves more money,,,,,

I bought 1,500 rounds of NATO spec 62gr penetrator for $0.55 per round shipped earlier this week.

I never said factory ammo was less expensive.

I said reloaders often sugarcoat the expenses/look at the situation extremely optimistically and maybe don't take all pertinent factors into account when quoting the cost of their reloads, and I will add can get pretty darn pushy about it.

 

[Warp]

So while we are on the topic, what is the best current source/price for available rifle primers like I would/will want to use for loading .223/5.56?

 

[David E]

I bought 1,500 rounds of NATO spec 62gr penetrator for $0.55 per round shipped earlier this week.

.55 - .23 = .32 cents savings per shot.

I never said factory ammo was less expensive.

No? Didn't you post:

Are you saying that around there the brass is worth $0.15 each? So I could sell my brass to get almost half of the cost of the factory ammo back? If reloaded rounds cos $0.23, how does reloading saving money?

I said reloaders often sugarcoat the expenses/look at the situation extremely optimistically and maybe don't take all pertinent factors into account when quoting the cost of their reloads,

Seriously? I laid out all the costs several times.

and I will add can get pretty darn pushy about it.

I don't care if you ever reload or even see the value of it. How is that pushy?

 

[Reloadron]

So while we are on the topic, what is the best current source/price for available rifle primers like I would/will want to use for loading .223/5.56?

I don't think there really is a single "current source" for primers, let alone small rifle primers for .223. Just about every source is hit and skip. Those having any luck are constantly checking websites of the major distributors like Powder Valley or Graff & Sons for example. When distributors do get anything it goes up on their website and is out of stock pretty quickly. Those with the time and energy constantly look to different distributor websites hoping for some luck. Sometimes time and patience pays off and sometimes not.

As to reloading or hand loading in general, people do it for assorted reasons. Personally in my case I don't hand load to save money. I roll my own to achieve accuracy in specific rifles I enjoy shooting. There are cases where I am loading ammunition that likely cost me more per round than buying bulk .223 for example. The same is true for .308 loads also. I am fortunate in that I do not worry much about what the cost per round is as much as I worry about how well the round will perform. Can a savings be realized hand loading? Absolutely there can be savings, how much beats the hell out of me as I never bothered to do the math. As of today it would be difficult to put a price on savings anyway because of tremendous price swings in components.

Right now my heart goes out to the new younger shooters coming on board. Most of these new shooters had no clue what happened years ago or any knowledge of the ammunition and loading component droughts of the past. I have been shooting since about age 8 and started hand loading when I was 22 and came home from Vietnam. I turned 63 last week and have been at it for awhile. The new guys do not have it as well as many of us and for a young shooter starting out there are priorities. With a wife and maybe kids you do not buy an 8 Lb jug of powder before you pay rent, mortgage payment or put beanies and weenies on the dinner table. You do not spend money you do not have following the US Government's lead. Buying a few thousand dollars in reloading supplies on your Visa card is not a real good idea. Many of those who were ill prepared for this current mess was through no fault of their own.

Shooting in general is an expensive hobby and the more one gets into it the more expensive it becomes. For many of us who have been at hand loading for many years and maintain a good component stock droughts like this are no big deal. However, for the new shooter these are really difficult times. Again, my heart goes out to them. I know this sucks but things will get better. Patience and good things come to those who wait.

Ron