223 bullet seating problem

[Balrog]

After I seat and crimp, I can push on the bullet in the case with my hand and move it down further, and then I can pull it back up to where it was. I cant pull it out of the case though. But there is definitely a significant amount of bullet.

My brass is once fired Lake City brass, sized with a Dillon sizing die, trimmed to length, and bullets seated and crimp done with Dillon Dies also.

What is my problem?

Even without crimp, my bullets should not be movable by hand, right?

 

[dc.fireman]

Balrog-

Go back and read the Dillon instructions - It sounds like maybe too much crimp, which is loosening the necks above the crimp. I use just the slightest hint of crimp, and no issues.
They shouldn't be moveable by hand/finger manipulation alone.

 

[Balrog]

The bullets are moveable even before I crimp.

 

[Walkalong]

Try sizing without the expander in, seat a bullet, and see if it will hold the bullet. If it will, check the size of the button on the expander spindle. Something is wrong. I assume the sizer is adjusted all the way down.

 

[Balrog]

OK here is some more info...

First, I have loaded 223 Rem for a couple of years. Previously I have resized with Lee or Hornady FL sizing dies, and was loading on a Lee Classic Turret. I went back and checked some of these old loads and there were no loose bullets.

Recently I got a Dillon 650. I am also using Dillon dies. I resized with a Dillon full length sizing die as a seperate step, then trimmed to length, and am now about to load the sized and trimmed cases.

If I take a sized and trimmed case, I cannot push a bullet into the mouth by hand. If I seat the bullet using the press to just below the cannelure, I cannot push in the bullet or detect any movement of the bullet. If I seat at the cannelure, I can push the bullet in further by hand. These bullets were Hornday 55g FMJ BT bulk bullets. I switched over and tried some Sierra Blitz Kings which do not have a cannelure, and if I seat to the same OAL, I get the same problem and can push in bullets.

I have tried several OAL's between 2.200 and 2.230, and seem to be having the problem consistently.

Maybe there was something wrong with the expander on the Dillon sizing die?

I guess I will size some cases with a Hornday or Lee FL sizing die and see what happens.

Problem is, I have sized a 5 gallon bucket of 223 brass with the Dillon die... hope its not all screwed, but I got a bad feeling about it.

 

[Hey_Allen]

If you haven't already primed the brass in the bucket, no problem, just run it through the other sizing die.
If it is already primed, run it through the other sizing die after removing the priming pin from the neck expander rod.

It sounds like your Dillon die may have too large an expander in it currently, so it shouldn't be all that difficult to solve once you figure out what was causing the issues.

 

[Balrog]

I havent primed it yet, so I guess I will resize on the press and see if that fixes it.

 

[Balrog]

Could anything other than the expander being too big account for this?

 

[rcmodel]

Yes.
If the sizing die is not adjusted all the way down to the shell plate it is only partially neck-sizing the cases. Then after expanding, there is not enough neck tension left to hold the bullet.

rc

 

[Balrog]

rcmodel,

I had the sizing die adjusted all the way to the shellplate.

If that is the case, then what do you think the problem is?

 

[rcmodel]

Then the only thing it can be is:
1. Undersize bullets.
2. Oversize expander button.
3. Defective sizing die with an oversize neck portion.
4. A combination of any of the four.

Thin case neck brass is #5, but that is very unlikely with LC military brass.

The expander should measure in the neighborhood of .221", to no more then .222" for proper neck tension.

If it's larger then that, take some 220 grit emery cloth, chuck it in a drill, and worry it down to size.

rc

 

[dc.fireman]

Check something else:

Your powder measure. Dillon presses 'bell' the casemouth at the powder charging stage. Is it possible you have a misadjusted powder dispenser? If you can't push them in by hand after resizing, then the only thing left between that and seating (on that end of the case anyways) would be the powder charging station. And FWIW - I'd back the dies off of the shell plate - so you can 'just see daylight' through it. From experience, those shell plates are rather expensive.

 

[Balrog]

Dillon presses 'bell' the casemouth at the powder charging stage.

I think that is only for pistol cases.

 

[Guncollector1982]

I had a set of Hornady 270 dies once that did the same exact thing in my instance all it was, was a oversized expander ball. RC i agree with 100 percent though on possible causes but just pointing out what happened to me once that sounds similar to your problem.

 

[Balrog]

One final question....

My brass is sized and trimmed to length If I run my brass through a different sizing die to correct the case neck tension problem, will it significantly stretch my brass, so that I have to size it again? I will check with a caliper once I get started, but I thought I would see what you guys thought.

 

[Balrog]

Update:

The expander ball on the Dillon die measures 0.224".

I checked the expander ball on my Hornady die and it is 0.222".

I think the Dillon expander ball is what is causing my problem. I have resized some of the brass with the Hornady die, and then loaded the bullets, and they do not move.

 

[rcmodel]

See post #11.

The expander should measure in the neighborhood of .221", to no more then .222" for proper neck tension.

You need to chuck the expander in an electric drill and work it down to .222" or so with emery cloth.

rc

 

[Balrog]

The expander ball on Dillon rifle dies is made out of "carbide"... will I be able to grind thaty down?

 

[rcmodel]

Well, probaby not too easy!

I'd just call Dillon and whine.
They will send you a properly sized expander free.

What you got is not only not going to work, but will produce dangerous reloads if you plan to use them in a semi-auto.

Bullet set-back during feeding isn't something to fool with.

rc

 

[highlander 5]

Dillon expander balls are carbide I believe so the drill idea is moot. Call Dillon and get a replacement,that is what their No BS gaurantee is for.

 

[Roccobro]

Well, probaby not too easy!

RC is right, but it isn't impossible to remove material from carbide with drill and good sand paper or another carbide tool (like a dremel wheel). Go slow and check often until you get a feel for how much is actually being removed.

Justin

 

[Balrog]

I am going to call Dillon and get this replaced. I see no reason why I ought to have to work on a die I paid good money for.

 

[Walkalong]

Yep, no need to do anything else.