.223 fired through a 7.62x39 barrel accidentally

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Chaotic Mind

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So I took a new shooter out today with me and she loaded 10 rounds of .223 into an AK magazine on accident. I didn't notice this when I loaded the AK and she actually was able to fire 10 rounds through the AK. At first I thought this wasn't possible however since it was our first firing with the rifle and all I could find was .223 shells I'm sure this happened. I checked the barrel and didn't notice anything obvious that jumped out at me however I'm wondering if anyone with more knowledge could tell me what kind of damage might have occurred that I might not be noticing? Thanks. And yes I know it was a fail on my part. :cuss:
 
If the 223 cases were fired in the AK they would be blown out to fit the chamber. I've never seen it done but given the size and head diameter difference I'd imagine the cases would be split. An AK will typically throw brass at least a good 15 feet forward and right of the firing line, so if the brass was close to where you fired from it was probably someone else's.
 
Question: If the smaller .224 bullet does NOT seal the .308 bore, does the case still fire form to fit the chamber? I personally never witnessed this event so I honesty don't know.
 
Catpop said:
Question: If the smaller .224 bullet does NOT seal the .308 bore, does the case still fire form to fit the chamber? I personally never witnessed this event so I honesty don't know.
Click to expand...

Good point. I'm not sure if the case would expand to chamber size but I don't think the case would maintain its original form either. If you fire a .243 in a .308 the case neck will blow out to .308. The bullet doesn't seal the bore but the case is also fully supported by the chamber up to the neck. That might make the difference. I've never done it and don't plan to try and find out.
 
I've seen that exact scenario once, AK mag loaded in the dark, .223 accidentally fired.

It was at a rifle match, we heard the bullet hit the steel target (about 10 yards away) and the AK had a severe stoppage due to the split .223 case.

Were each of the 10 rounds cycled by hand? I'm having difficulty believing that a 7.62x39 rifle would extract, load, and fire .223 without human intervention.

BSW
 
I'd have to believe the initial detonation would expand the case IF chambering was even possible. I find it hard to believe the rifle would function through a whole magazine and you'd know something was up with the sound of the report. Think of it this way, if you detonate a cartridge outside a chamber does it rupture ... Yes. If that brass wasn't deformed it wasn't yours.
 
Several things make me skeptical.
1. The base of the shell would not be engaged by the extractor or the bolt face.
2. The neck of the 7.62 is .335 in diameter but the shoulder of the 5.56 round is .355 so I don't think the bolt would have had room to close.
3. The AK is gas operated and I do not believe even if the bolt could close that the .223 diameter round would create enough back pressure to cycle the bolt as it rattled down the bore.
4. As noted in #1, it wouldn't extract because the extractor cannot engage the rim of the cartridge.
 
I worked with a Vietnam vet that told me he had done it intentionally on a couple of occasions, he acted like it was common knowledge over there that you could do it in a pinch. I took his word for it and have never tried it.
As others have said if the 223 case wasn't severely deformed it didn't shoot in 7.62 chamber.
 
I would think the brass would expand to the chamber, I've seen it happen when a 9mm was fired through a 40. I don't believe for a second the rifle would cycle and chamber another round though.

With the slug not sealing the gas behind it into the barrel there's no way it would have enough pressure to cycle the action.
 
223 rem fired in a 7.62x39 chamber

223Rem.jpg Been done before and will be done again. One reason i dont like people at the next bench when i am shooting.
 
I can't imagine how it could cycle. The bullet would not seal the bore to feed any pressure into the gas piston. Are you sure you didn't just miss the X39 cases? AKs can toss them pretty far.
 
I would think the brass would expand to the chamber, I've seen it happen when a 9mm was fired through a 40. I don't believe for a second the rifle would cycle and chamber another round though.
Click to expand...
^^^+1

If ten rounds of .223 fired through a 7.62x39AK and functioned well enough to not be obvious something was wrong, it puts the AK and its magazine on a whole other level of reliability!
 
http://rugerforum.net/rifles/26809-what-would-happen-if-you-loaded-223-round-mag-7-62x39.html And another.
attachment.php
Like i said, know who is shooting next to you. Then we have pistol shooters, Oops. 9x19 fired in a 357 SIG > http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=791440 See photo at link.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for pictures 243,
plain to see it will fire form, but doesn't leave a very usable case. Haha.
Also good reason to have gas vents and wear shooting glasses!
 
243winxb said:
5.56 NATO is rated at 62,000 psi in gas pressure and the .223 is rated at 55,000 psi. The 7.62X39 is 45,000 psi . http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/specifications/Velocity_Pressure_CfR.pdf
Click to expand...
Your comparison of 5.56NATO and .223Rem is like comparing apples to oranges. The 5.56 pressure you listed is taken in a 5.56 chamber using CIP methods while the .223 pressure is taken in a .223 chamber using SAAMI methods. Two very different ways of measuring pressure, and 2 slightly diferent chambers. It is not a fair assessment of the pressure that the specific ammo might generate in other chambers.
 
243winxb said:
5.56 NATO is rated at 62,000 psi in gas pressure and the .223 is rated at 55,000 psi. The 7.62X39 is 45,000 psi . http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/specifications/Velocity_Pressure_CfR.pdf
Click to expand...
I hate this particular piece of misinformation.

The problem you quote the pressure for the absolute maximum allowable pressure for M855 (NOT M193) and compare it the the average recommended pressure for .223 Rem.

This is an apples-to-pears comparison. A little closer than an orange, but still different.

If you quote the average chamber pressure for M855, Ball, it is 58,700 psi.
If you quote the average chamber pressure for M193, Ball, it is 55,000 psi.

Both of these pressure are to measured by transducer.

The maximum allowable pressure for M855 is 62,700 psi
The maximum allowable pressure for M193 is 61,000 psi
The maximum allowable pressure that any lot should ever produce for commercial .223 Rem is 61,000 psi

The chamber pressures you are likely to see for military ammunition, fired in military chambers is not that different from .223 Rem, fired from .223 Rem chambers.
 
So to answer a few of the questions asked:

- Rounds were steel cased wolf .223 to be specific, 55gr.
- all 10 rounds cycled without me needing to hand cycle, no malfunctions
- I didn't notice any of the .223 on the ground split or otherwise damaged
- I did a pretty thorough sweep to the right however I probably could have walked further forward than I did.
- The young lady I took shooting said she felt like the recoil was heavier with the second mag which was confirmed x39 and she was pretty positive she had loaded the AK mag with .223 as she had loaded 3 PMAGs before and just picked up the "baby mag" that she saw.

Thanks again for all the info gentlemen.
 
I fired a .243 through a .308 one time on accident. Other than expanding the brass there wasn't any damage.
 
I highly suspect the pressure will drop dramatically if someone shoots a 223 caliber bullet down a 311 bore. Someone is lucky the magazine and top cover did not blow off their AK. In as much as the bore pressure would be low, if the case split, all that gas would be going back into the mechanism, and that would be a bad thing.
 
The argument about how the pressure is measured is a bit silly when we are discussing a .22 bullet wandering down a .31 caliber barrel. I don't know what the pressure is, but it sure isn't anything like 60k psi.

Jim
 
This dummy did this a couple of time last month.

The shots sounded like misfires, and it took a rod to get the cases out. The cases were fully expanded to 7.62x39 diameter. It wasn't until the second one that I noticed the .223 headstamp on both.
 
It would be nice if a big ammo maker took their test equipment and did a pressure check on this "accidental" operator malfunction. That would settle this question.

Mark

I'm glad there were no injuries in this event.
 
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