223 high primers

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edfardos

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So thanks to all your help here, I loaded my first 50 .223Remington cartridges using once-fired FC/military brass. I haven't fired them yet, and everything seemed to go just fine, except for some high primers.

Some primers are flush, some are high, none are recessed. I put quite a bit of muscle into priming, more than any other cartridge I've ever made, yet primers come out a couple thousandths high. You can feel it more than you can see it.

I'm pretty sure I removed the crimp from the brass using a debur tool, but I took the "less is more" approach when removing brass from the mouth of the primer pocket. Did I remove enough of the crimp?

I've been reading about primer pocket uniformers also, I'm guessing the primer is bottoming out on a shallow/radiused pocket corner? Anyone seen or used a primer pocket uniformer? (sinclaire makes one).

And lastly, my cause for concern is the potential for a slam fire in an AR15. Anyone had this happen with slightly high primers? Just keep the barrel on target when I close the bolt? I only made 50 of these. Should I use the forward assist to gently close the bolt, or just slam it home with the bolt catch and hope for the best? Will the high primers give me a fully automatic rifle? :)

thanks!
-edfardos
 
I would not shoot them in a semi-auto.

If one does slam-fire due to a high primer, it will do it before the bolt is fully locked.

That will result in a series of unfortunate events for the gun, and possibly you.

I would say you didn't get all the crimp out of some of them.
Pull the bullets and de-prime them, and try again.
 
Really? With the shoulders pushed all the way back, the nearly imperceptible primer highness is well within headspace. In fact, the only way I can tell the primers are high, is that I can barely rock them on a caliper when measuring the OAL, and even then, the rocking seems to be caused by bent rims more than anything.

I've had high 30'06 primers which seated as I slowly closed the bolt, I assumed I could manually close the bolt on any suspect 223 rounds with the forward assist and get the same effect, so long as the bolt is locked before the bolt face puts significant force on the head/primer.

I just want to be sure, better safe than sorry. Thanks for the info!

So to solve high-primers, take off more of the crimp *and* uniform the pocket bottoms? 223 reloaders, are you doing both on your once fired military brass?

thanks again!
-edfardos
 
I have loaded 5.56 GI brass since I bought my first .223 in 1970.

I don't own a primer pocket uniformer.

I do own a RCBS primer pocket swager though.

rc
 
Any slam fires? On account of a high primer? Like you said, an out of battery slam fire would be a real mess. Primers would have to be *very* (visibly) high if the bolt face hit them before the lugs began to engage no? I'll gently close the bolt with finger pressure on the high ones and make sure it has enough head space to fully lock. Otherwise kinetic puller.

Once fired, i guess i'll take off some more of the crimp, and look into getting a uniformer for the bottom of the pockets. Those CCI400's just wont go in otherwise.

curiously,
-craig
 
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Any slam fires?
Click to expand...
Not since I stopped reaming pockets & smashing primers in with a RockChucker press in 1970 something.
I switched to swaging pockets and seating with an RCBS hand priming tool.

A hand primer tool will give you much better "feel" that will allow you to detect cases with any remaining crimp still in them.

What are you priming with?

rc
 
I was priming using and RCBS Pro2000 progressive press. It has a stop you can set for the primers, which I defeated, because each brass rim is slightly different or bent, so I got variable depths.

The real issue is that I couldn't get them in even by standing up and leaning on it quite a bit. These are my first small rifle primers so I wasn't sure what it'd take to crush one, but it looks like you can push'm pretty hard (i push *really* hard on large rifle primers), but small pistol primers crush easily (must use the primer stop screw on the press).

I still don't have the AR15.. friggen CA waiting period. I'll see if I can chamber them with thumb pressure, make sure the bolt locks, then fire each one. I'm really surprised they didn't seat below flush... so I guess i'll have to get a reamer and a uniformer. I went back and looked at my reamed brass (crimp removed), and they definately have a beveled edge, so I'm assuming the crimp is gone, and i need to uniform the bottom of the pocket.


hrm,
edfardos
 
edfardos,

You might be okay if you shoot the 50 rounds you have loaded if you load them one at a time. You might be okay with them as they are but I'm not one to take a chance with any cartridge problem. I would not reload anymore cartridges until you have a way to uniform the primer pockets. I used to use a tool to deburing tool to clear the crimp from military brass but I went the way of RC and purchased a RCBS primer pocket swager and have had zero issues with primers in military brass since.
 
thanks for the info, yes, agreed, I'm not loading any more cartridges until i figure out this priming problem. I looked up the RCBS pocket swager, and it specifically states "Not for use on progressive presses."

I think i'm looking at a standalone swager, or a deburr tool with a pocket uniformer tool (the latter of which i'll need to buy).

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/764406/redding-primer-pocket-uniformer-tool-small
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/389104/lee-chamfer-and-deburring-tool

If those don't allow me to seat primers then either the brass or primers are junk right?

thanks again,
-edfardos
 
I doubt there is anything wrong with the primers or the brass. A good SS press would be a nice addtion to your setup. A CH4D swage & ram prime set that cost $30(I think) would be handy.

I don't have a 2000 but I think I remember reading about the primeing system being adjustable.
 
The real issue is that I couldn't get them in even by standing up and leaning on it quite a bit.
Click to expand...

I think it is a safe bet that you haven't removed enough of the crimp and are probably squishing primers. Some 223s can be stiffer to prime than others but none make you stand up and lean when press priming.

Some Nickel Federal cases downright suck to prime, I usually toss those that give me problems.
 
I use the RCBS priming die and ram. I set my depth and can be sure every single primer is going to be all the way in and nearly at the exact same depth give or take .0005". I've been doing this way since I started reloading 30+ years ago without a single slam fire or mis-fire.
 
edfardos said:
Should I use the forward assist to gently close the bolt, or just slam it home with the bolt catch and hope for the best? Will the high primers give me a fully automatic rifle? :)

-edfardos[/QUOTE

It concerns me when you talk about gently moving the bolt closed with the forward assist. You do know that the thing on top like a T handle is the charging handle and the forward assist does nothing until the bolt is already forward. Right? The buffer spring drives the bolt forward once the bolt is released.
Click to expand...
 
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Regarding moving the bolt forward by hand; can't you slide the bolt carrier group without using the charging bar (t-handle) with a finger by simply putting your thumb in the scallop of the gas exaughst ports. slide it back far enough to insert a round through the ejection port, and then gently close the bolt carrier group? I didn't think the buffer spring tension would be very high at all with the bolt carrier group back a couple inches?

I obviously don't have an AR15 in my hand at the moment, so perhaps all of this is presumptuous. Above all, it needs to be done safely. I'd like to discharge this ammo (they're test loads for accuracy, hand mesaured).

I'm pretty sure i removed the crimp, i have a feeling the primer pocket around the flash hole is very non-uniform, since they still don't seat, which has me researching primer pocket uniformer tools.

thanks a billion for all the tips!

--edfardos
 
Actually a series of high primers will basically go FA on you, much like an open bolt Thompson. Since it's the bolt face that's striking the primer rather than the firing pin via the hammer, the sear never comes into play at all. AFAIK the only way to stop this train wreck is to drop the mag or run out of ammo, or hope you get one that doesn't slamfire. Icky icky stuff.

In an AR, the "good news" is that the primer will almost certainly detonate before the bolt locks up, almost guaranteeing that the gun will explode rather than go FA. Since the bolt goes all the way forward before starting to rotate into lockup, (okay, it cams the last thou or so) it'll whack the high primer before it gets a chance to start camming over. So, in the case of an AR, either the ammo will work normally or explode in your face. Personally that's not a chance I'd take.

As to the OP, either the pockets aren't deep enough or the crimp hasn't been removed enough. Though I myself ream cases that don't play nice, the general consensus around here is that swaging is far better...so I'm gonna dig out my old Chucker and my RCBS swage kit and see how that goes.

Buffer spring pressure would be far too much to hold back with your thumb against the ejection port cover divot. Carefully riding the charging handle forward would work, but again if you slip and it grenades....................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZOGb-gaYfs
 
I'm always looking for an extra point so this is what I do. I shoot a lot of GI brass, 223, 308, 30-06 and 45 ACP. I even have some 38 laying around some place.

For crimped primer pockets I use a Dillon Super Swage. Easy to adjust and you can swage the pockets quickly. I then uniform those primer pockets which need it. I found match GI brass to already very uniform pockets.

I like the feel of priming a swaged pocket as it feels more like I’m priming comm brass. uiforming the primer pockets has returned the most points for the buck so far in brass prep.
 
As with anything that pertains to reloading, if it isn't exactly right, DON'T SHOOT IT.

A high primer would not even make it past me to get a charge and a bullet. I put all of my primed cases into shell holders upside down and I look at each and every primer. If it's high or crushed/flattened from the priming process, I fix it or deprime and try again. There is no such thing as "good enough" in reloading. It either is or is not.
 
As with anything that pertains to reloading, if it isn't exactly right, DON'T SHOOT IT.

A high primer would not even make it past me to get a charge and a bullet. I put all of my primed cases into shell holders upside down and I look at each and every primer. If it's high or crushed/flattened from the priming process, I fix it or deprime and try again. There is no such thing as "good enough" in reloading. It either is or is not.
Click to expand...

Amen Bro..........I should have said it. Don't need no stinking slam fires in my gas guns. Some would be hard to replace.
 
i chuck a chamfering/deburring tool in the drill press, turn the drill press on and have at it. It takes about five minutes to ream the crimping groove out of 100 military cases.
 
Also, I believe the swager would be about 10 times faster and easier than using a deburr tool.

I bought a thousand once fired 556 brass and it would suck to remove the crimp without the right tool.
 
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