I just picked up a Rock River Arms LAR-15 Varmint configuration. Been a while since I have reloaded for rifles and just curious as to powder and bullet (weight) suggestions. It has a .223 Wylde chamber with a 20" barrel 1:8 twist. I noticed in the Hornady manual they seemed to like VV N140 and N135 for powder. I am probably not going to do more than paper shooting and maybe some hogs or other small critters! I would be interested in suggestions from others...
223 powder and bullet suggestions
- Thread starter cwall64
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ironworkerwill
Member
Imr 4064 and RL15(if you can find it) works for me. I've shot up to 77smk's haven't had time to experiment with any heavier. I don't have much VVpowder experience. Good luck!
NWcityguy2
Member
All my ARs prefer IMR 4064 over every other powder, including R15. I have not tried Varget or IMR 4166 though. I also recommend trying the Hornady bullets. Their BTHP bullets are more economical that the Sierra and Nosler variety and their cheap bullets are more consistent that the Armscor and RMR variety.
ohioshooter
Member
I agree with NWcityguy2. Both my AR (.223 and .308 Bushmaster, DPMS) prefer IMR 4064.
spitballer
Member
I am becoming more and more convinced that the rate of twist of a rifle may be key in determining not only the optimum weight of a projectile but optimum velocity as well, so powder/projectile combinations with an 8" twist may be due in part to an optimum velocity range. I say this because I've found that my 12" twist seems to perform best when firing projectiles at just over 3000 fps irrespective of weight. Maintaining this velocity is easily accomplished with my 64 grain bergers using conventional loading techniques, but with lighter 55 grain bullets it's a bit trickier. Lately I've been having some success maintaining the slower velocity with 55's using a very slow powder that, in addition to expanding more slowly, provides additional braking by way of fouling. This may be overthinking on my part so I'm sure our resident experts will know more about it. Good luck to you.
Thanks! Any suggested bullet weights for the 1:8 twist? I see a lot of info on 1:7 and 1:9, but not too much yet on the 1:8! I noticed in Hornady #9 that they have "Note: that the 70 grain GMX bullet will not stabilize in 1-8" and slower twist Bbls", but it seems the 75 grain A-MAX is recommending a 1-8" or faster...
For me I like the ball powders for 223 so much easier to meter , what has worked well for
Me with 55 to 69 grain projectile is tac, cfe223,blc 2 , 748 . A lot of powders work well for
.223 which is a good thing with powder supply being so hit and miss
Me with 55 to 69 grain projectile is tac, cfe223,blc 2 , 748 . A lot of powders work well for
.223 which is a good thing with powder supply being so hit and miss
ColoradoShooter77
Member
I'm a big fan of H-4895 and IMR-8208 for bullets of 50 grains to 69 grains. I don't have a progressive press, so I'm not worried about metering.
These two powders have done really well for me.
You can load everything up to 30-06 with H-4895, its a really versatile powder.
These two powders have done really well for me.
You can load everything up to 30-06 with H-4895, its a really versatile powder.
Ironicaintit
Member
Ive had real good luck with IMR4198 and 3031 in my AR. I use 55 grain sierra boat tails mostly.
I havent tried 4064
I havent tried 4064
Gravedigger56
Member
Happy with IMR4895 and 55gr Hornady FMJ, BT for plinking at the range. Best part is it's easy to find. Even Big R usually has it on their shelves.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
223 powder and bullet suggestions
For the 223 Remington I would suggest gun powder and rifle bullets.
My AR rifles are all 20" Barrels having a 1:7 twist. Shooting 69 grain bullets my best loads seem to be IMR 4895, VV N-135 and VV N-140 with muzzle velocities around 2700 FPS. Single loading 80 grain bullets IMR 4895 is my go to powder just about all the time.
Nice thing about the 223 is the wide range of powders that can be used.
Ron
For the 223 Remington I would suggest gun powder and rifle bullets.
My AR rifles are all 20" Barrels having a 1:7 twist. Shooting 69 grain bullets my best loads seem to be IMR 4895, VV N-135 and VV N-140 with muzzle velocities around 2700 FPS. Single loading 80 grain bullets IMR 4895 is my go to powder just about all the time.
Nice thing about the 223 is the wide range of powders that can be used.
Ron
If all your doing is building blaster ammo to plink with, and maybe shoot hog sized animals you need not spend alot of money on ammo. I suggest keeping everything as simple as possible.
I suggest H335 or CFE 223 for powder. Both are ball powders, meter nicely, so ease of use is high. For bullets, Hornady 55gr FMJBTs. They are accurate, cheap and shoot nicely from an 8 twist barrel. Great for putting holes in paper cheaply. Probably not the best bullet for hogs and other critters though. Id suggest 55gr Vmax for thin skinned animals, and maybe some 55gr GMX bullets for tougher animals. Those are Hornady bullets, but other companies make similar bullets, so just an example here.
By using bullets that all weigh the same and are roughly the same shape and construction you can short cut alot of load development. Your scope will probably not require much if any adjustment when switch between bullets as well.
Use the KISS rule. Yes, heavier bullets, and harder to use powders are great, but look at what you need. Do would want something thats easy and proven? Do you want to spend a bunch of time hand trickling powder? Using multiple different sizes and construction of bullets requiring alot of load work up time? Will spending all that extra time yield better results?
And just a heads up. I use 25.2 grains of H335 over Hornady 55gr FMJBTs and 55gr Vmax with CCI 400 primers. Both loads shoot under an inch at 100 yards, and require no scope adjustment when switching between loads. The GMX bullets would probably be about the same. My AR uses a Green Mtn 18" 5.56 chambered rifle length gas system 8 twist barrel, so you likely would get the same results from your 20" 8 twist.
As always, work your own loads up. What works well for me, might blow your gun up.
I suggest H335 or CFE 223 for powder. Both are ball powders, meter nicely, so ease of use is high. For bullets, Hornady 55gr FMJBTs. They are accurate, cheap and shoot nicely from an 8 twist barrel. Great for putting holes in paper cheaply. Probably not the best bullet for hogs and other critters though. Id suggest 55gr Vmax for thin skinned animals, and maybe some 55gr GMX bullets for tougher animals. Those are Hornady bullets, but other companies make similar bullets, so just an example here.
By using bullets that all weigh the same and are roughly the same shape and construction you can short cut alot of load development. Your scope will probably not require much if any adjustment when switch between bullets as well.
Use the KISS rule. Yes, heavier bullets, and harder to use powders are great, but look at what you need. Do would want something thats easy and proven? Do you want to spend a bunch of time hand trickling powder? Using multiple different sizes and construction of bullets requiring alot of load work up time? Will spending all that extra time yield better results?
And just a heads up. I use 25.2 grains of H335 over Hornady 55gr FMJBTs and 55gr Vmax with CCI 400 primers. Both loads shoot under an inch at 100 yards, and require no scope adjustment when switching between loads. The GMX bullets would probably be about the same. My AR uses a Green Mtn 18" 5.56 chambered rifle length gas system 8 twist barrel, so you likely would get the same results from your 20" 8 twist.
As always, work your own loads up. What works well for me, might blow your gun up.
Thanks all for the great information! I did talk to Rock River and they also said 55 - 80 grain bullets for that rifle.
One other question, I always tend to over buy on my dies, really liking the Redding competition dies for my handgun calibers - laziness I guess, but I do love the micrometers. Thinking back to my 30+ year old RCBS dies for my hunting rifles 22-250, 243, 270, 7Mag, 300win Mag, etc still working and in good shape (able to get quarter size 3 shot groupings on paper @ 100 yards). Are the RCBS AR dies sufficient, or any negatives to them? If/when I get a conversion kit for the XL650 I would probably buy something else... My thought is buy cheap plinking rounds, but load a smaller subset of target type rounds on T-7 or Rockchucker (that is until I get enough brass to justify the Dillon conversion kit).
BTW - they didn't have all the fancy stuff back then like carbide dies, bushing dies, etc - that I remember (and memory and eyesight are not what they used to be)!
One other question, I always tend to over buy on my dies, really liking the Redding competition dies for my handgun calibers - laziness I guess, but I do love the micrometers. Thinking back to my 30+ year old RCBS dies for my hunting rifles 22-250, 243, 270, 7Mag, 300win Mag, etc still working and in good shape (able to get quarter size 3 shot groupings on paper @ 100 yards). Are the RCBS AR dies sufficient, or any negatives to them? If/when I get a conversion kit for the XL650 I would probably buy something else... My thought is buy cheap plinking rounds, but load a smaller subset of target type rounds on T-7 or Rockchucker (that is until I get enough brass to justify the Dillon conversion kit).
BTW - they didn't have all the fancy stuff back then like carbide dies, bushing dies, etc - that I remember (and memory and eyesight are not what they used to be)!
You want to buy Redding dies, do it. They are very nice. I just use Hornady dies. The RCBS dies will be fine as well. Dont worry about buying a small base sizing die unless you have a very tight chamber on your AR and you have to have them. They will over work your brass a little, resulting in less reloads. Remember, your loading for an AR, not a bolt rifle, so perfection simply is not as attainable as it would be for a bolt rifle.
If you load on a progressive (650?) Id just load everything from the start. It is more than capable of loading MOA capable ammo. You can build much more accurate plinking ammo for half the cost than the crappiest cheap plinking ammo. I use 55gr FJMBTs for plinking, toal cost about $.18 per, and as long as I do my job, they shoot MOA all day. Figure out what powder you want to use, buy 1 lbs of powder, buy 1000 bullets, buy 1000 pieces of Lake City brass, and build a few loads up. If it doesnt work out, try a different powder.
Great information, thanks! I assume the chamber is a little tighter on this rifle as RRA guarantees 3/4 MOA @ 100 Yards on it (just an assumption though).
I guess I'll have to order some Lake City brass, I am reading up on it now - looking for a good place to buy...
Again, thanks to everyone for all the good info.
I guess I'll have to order some Lake City brass, I am reading up on it now - looking for a good place to buy...
Again, thanks to everyone for all the good info.
Maybe, maybe not. All you can do is try a regular die, and see what happens. If it extracts poorly, a small base die might solve the issue. Another consideration is that some LC brass has been fired out a machine gun which generally has a very large chamber, so I might require 2 passes when being sized the first time. Ive had 308 LC brass that required 3 passes to get it back to size, 2 passes without the expander, and the 3rd with the expander in. The LC 5.56 brass Ive processed Ive been able to process in a single pass. You will also need to swage or cut the crimps on any milspec brass as well. One has to consider that were not loading an AR to a specific distance off the lands like we would a bolt rifle. Mag length is max unless you want to feed one at a time.
Not reloading specific but accuracy in an AR is determined largely by the barrel IMHO. Hows the trigger? If it sucks, buy a Geissele SSA-E. Thats the other side of the equation on the AR for accuracy. Free floating the barrel is the 3rd part. Anything beyond that is just eye candy.
Lots of good places out there, but Monmouth Brass is where I buy alot of bulk reloading components like LC brass and 55gr FMJBTs.
FightFireJay
Member
It may or may not have a tight chamber. The throat/lead/free bore area is probably more important to accuracy than an overall tight or loose chamber. If I recall, Wylde chamber is actually just a bit looser and uses a slightly tighter free bore, but I could be wrong on that.
Bullets? Just find one you want to try, we have so many great bullets out there.
- 55gr fmj - great for plinking and economical, don't expect precision
- Soft points, hollow points, and ballistic tips will generally give you better accuracy
Personally?
- 53 gr V-max for varmint load. .290 BC from a smokin fast bullet!
- 55 gr Z-max for "plinking". Much better accuracy than fmj and only a mild increase in price
- 60 gr Nosler BT Varmint for general use and home defense
- 68 gr Hornady HPBT for my precision load, may become my general use bullet
What powder to use?
H335 - tried and true, tons of great load data
CFE223 - extra velocity and copper fouling eraser, what's not to love?
8208 XBR - extremely temperature stable and reputation for accuracy
But mostly just buy one that you can get load data for and is available locally.
What weight bullet?
Whatever you want. You can go up to and probably beyond the 77 gr bullet weight without an issue. You won't know what your barrel likes best until you start shooting it. try a few small boxes of different bullets until you figure out which one you like the best, and THEN buy in bulk.
I missed this one. I use it for heavier bullets above 55gr. Its good stuff.
The RRA 2 stages are pretty good, but never shoot an SSA-E in comparison. Youll want one as soon as you try it.
Just keep in mind H335 is not great for heavier bullets. CFE 223 will likely yield the best velocity's. 8208 XBR will likely be the most consistent.
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