allen2259
Member
I have worked with pistol rounds for over 20yrs now its time for 223. It looks like I am going to invest a lot of money in case prep and other equipment. Any ideas on money saving tips.
223 reloading
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maxxhavoc
Member
If you are loading for an AR, get a small base die right off. It took me awhile (and a standard die set) to learn this.
Get a Wilson case gauge. It will save time in the long run, and will keep you from needing to pull rounds apart because they won't chamber fully.
Buy FMJ bullets from RMR for plinking. $82/k, and they have a THR coupon code to get a discount.
Get a Wilson case gauge. It will save time in the long run, and will keep you from needing to pull rounds apart because they won't chamber fully.
Buy FMJ bullets from RMR for plinking. $82/k, and they have a THR coupon code to get a discount.
I definitely agree on the case gauge.
FL dies have worked flawlessly for me in my AR. Is the diff between someone needing them or not the particulars of the chamber they'll be used in? I've heard one down side (might be only theoretical - not sure if it causes much practical issue) is that since small base does make the case a skitch smaller - the brass ends up getting worked more, which may shorten its life. But if one's rifle chamber is tight - that might be the only answer.
FL dies have worked flawlessly for me in my AR. Is the diff between someone needing them or not the particulars of the chamber they'll be used in? I've heard one down side (might be only theoretical - not sure if it causes much practical issue) is that since small base does make the case a skitch smaller - the brass ends up getting worked more, which may shorten its life. But if one's rifle chamber is tight - that might be the only answer.
savagemann
Member
Maybe I am just lucky, but I have 2 sets of LEE Pacesetter die sets, you know the red box set that includes the FCD?
I have never had a single case not chamber after tens of thousands of rounds.
I use a basic Lyman case gauge.
I also use a CTS trimmer and lyman debur/chamfer tool.
I chuck the trimmer in my drill press around 70o rpm if memory serves me.
I also chuck the chamfer/debur tips into the press as well. Simple and fast.
I lube with homebrew lanolin/alcohol 1:11 or 1:12 ratio, whatever eyeballs best at the time.
I barely even tumble my brass or clean primer pockets and easily produce sub moa loads.
This is all loaded on a LEE reloader press or a breech lock hand press.
Consistiency is key. You can do it with the cheap stuff too.
Edited to add:
All of my .223 using the stuff listed above has been shot through 6 different ar platform rifles. All with 5.56 chambers.
I have never had a single case not chamber after tens of thousands of rounds.
I use a basic Lyman case gauge.
I also use a CTS trimmer and lyman debur/chamfer tool.
I chuck the trimmer in my drill press around 70o rpm if memory serves me.
I also chuck the chamfer/debur tips into the press as well. Simple and fast.
I lube with homebrew lanolin/alcohol 1:11 or 1:12 ratio, whatever eyeballs best at the time.
I barely even tumble my brass or clean primer pockets and easily produce sub moa loads.
This is all loaded on a LEE reloader press or a breech lock hand press.
Consistiency is key. You can do it with the cheap stuff too.
Edited to add:
All of my .223 using the stuff listed above has been shot through 6 different ar platform rifles. All with 5.56 chambers.
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I have load .223 since 1970 for AR-15, Mini-14, and CZ bolt action.
Using standard RCBS FL loading dies.
There is no need for starting with a small base die that I can think of.
At least I haven't needed one in 45 years.
rc
Using standard RCBS FL loading dies.
There is no need for starting with a small base die that I can think of.
At least I haven't needed one in 45 years.
rc
sirgilligan
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You need a way to trim and a way to check head space. As you know, the shoulder is what contacts the rifle's chamber to stop it from going further. If the shoulder is pushed back/down too far then there will be too much space between the bolt face and the case head.
Here is a photo of the tools I was using to do case prep for .223.
I use the Dillon case gauge, which checks shoulder position relative to case head and case length.
I use small base dies. Just because that was what I was told to get since I have very different semi-auto rifles and one bolt.
I use the RCBS primer pocket swager to remove primer crimp. It is a pain, you have to really abruptly move the arm on the press to get the case off of the swager. I don't like it, but it works.
Here is the case gauge in action:
This case is below spec.
You hold the case gauge in the air and drop it in to check if the shoulder is right, you flip it over and sit it on a flat surface to check case length (as per the instructions that came with it).
p.s. I have a goal of having all the tools necessary to reload if there is no electricity. Thus the manual trimmer. I recently got an electronic scale, but I have a beam scale so I have still met my goal.
Here is a photo of the tools I was using to do case prep for .223.
I use the Dillon case gauge, which checks shoulder position relative to case head and case length.
I use small base dies. Just because that was what I was told to get since I have very different semi-auto rifles and one bolt.
I use the RCBS primer pocket swager to remove primer crimp. It is a pain, you have to really abruptly move the arm on the press to get the case off of the swager. I don't like it, but it works.
Here is the case gauge in action:
This case is below spec.
You hold the case gauge in the air and drop it in to check if the shoulder is right, you flip it over and sit it on a flat surface to check case length (as per the instructions that came with it).
p.s. I have a goal of having all the tools necessary to reload if there is no electricity. Thus the manual trimmer. I recently got an electronic scale, but I have a beam scale so I have still met my goal.
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earplug
Member
Carbide sizing button.
Due to the ease of putting to much sizing lube or not enough lube. A Fellow shooter suggested I buy a Lyman carbide sizing/depriming button.
I have it on order and based on what I have read its a good thing to use.
They fit Lyman and RCBS dies. Redding makes such a thing.
Redding competition seating dies are expensive, but work very well for seating long slender bullets.
Corn cob media will stick inside .223 cases if you use such a thing to tumble your brass.
Lyman walnut media has worked for me.
Due to the ease of putting to much sizing lube or not enough lube. A Fellow shooter suggested I buy a Lyman carbide sizing/depriming button.
I have it on order and based on what I have read its a good thing to use.
They fit Lyman and RCBS dies. Redding makes such a thing.
Redding competition seating dies are expensive, but work very well for seating long slender bullets.
Corn cob media will stick inside .223 cases if you use such a thing to tumble your brass.
Lyman walnut media has worked for me.
maxxhavoc
Member
In my case, I had a bolt-action .223 Remington 700. No problem with neck or standard die (both Lee).
Then I got an AR carbine, nothing special. It worked fine with the standard dies. So I loaded up most of my brass for use in the AR using the standard dies. About 3k loaded rounds. I reloaded what I shot and just kept around the 3k loaded mark, plus whatever extra range pickups came my way.
When I realized the carbine was not letting me hit as well as other rifles (mostly due to sight radius and aging eyes), I built a 20" rifle using the PSA FN CHF upper. The tighter tolerances of the chamber mean that at least 1/3 of the rounds I have stacked up would not chamber properly. So I have cans of ammo, a good accurate AR, and I can't use the ammo in the rifle without keeping a mallet nearby to hammer the bolt open with. The ammo built with a small based die (RCBS) chambers perfectly.
If I had to start over loading for ARs, I would get the small base die right off. I got through 12 years before I needed one, but when I did I wish I had used it all along.
As others have stated, your mileage may vary.
Then I got an AR carbine, nothing special. It worked fine with the standard dies. So I loaded up most of my brass for use in the AR using the standard dies. About 3k loaded rounds. I reloaded what I shot and just kept around the 3k loaded mark, plus whatever extra range pickups came my way.
When I realized the carbine was not letting me hit as well as other rifles (mostly due to sight radius and aging eyes), I built a 20" rifle using the PSA FN CHF upper. The tighter tolerances of the chamber mean that at least 1/3 of the rounds I have stacked up would not chamber properly. So I have cans of ammo, a good accurate AR, and I can't use the ammo in the rifle without keeping a mallet nearby to hammer the bolt open with. The ammo built with a small based die (RCBS) chambers perfectly.
If I had to start over loading for ARs, I would get the small base die right off. I got through 12 years before I needed one, but when I did I wish I had used it all along.
As others have stated, your mileage may vary.
allen2259
Member
Thanks for the equipment info
Lots of info on equipment, but the cost of all the case prep. I have a RL550 B
already made order for dies, but wow! the cost of everything else is little steep
Lots of info on equipment, but the cost of all the case prep. I have a RL550 B
already made order for dies, but wow! the cost of everything else is little steep
For case prep, I use the Lee ball cutter and 223 trim guide. I chuck the case in a drill, using the zip trim chuck + zip trim chuck spindle adapter. That's cheap. With some practice, it is pretty fast.
If you have a drill press, you can chuck the ball cutter/223 guide into it. I have tried it both ways, and I prefer the hand drill spinning the case.
If you have a drill press, you can chuck the ball cutter/223 guide into it. I have tried it both ways, and I prefer the hand drill spinning the case.
maxxhavoc
Member
The Lee set above is inexpensive and easy to use.
For case prep, I use this:
http://www.opticsplanet.com/lyman-universal-case-prep-accessory-set.html
It has all the tools you need to Chamfer, Debur, remove military crimps, uniform primer pockets, and clean primer pockets. For small and large rifle cases. There are better tools to do some of these tasks, but it has been one of my most versatile purchases in rifle reloading.
For case prep, I use this:
http://www.opticsplanet.com/lyman-universal-case-prep-accessory-set.html
It has all the tools you need to Chamfer, Debur, remove military crimps, uniform primer pockets, and clean primer pockets. For small and large rifle cases. There are better tools to do some of these tasks, but it has been one of my most versatile purchases in rifle reloading.
moxie
Member
I like the RCBS FL 2 die set. Works perfect for me.
Yes a case gage is a good idea. I like the Lyman or the L.E. Wilson.
The RCBS or Dillon bench mounted primer pocket crimp swager is a good thing.
You will need some way to lube your cases prior to sizing. I like Hornady One-Shot. Others like RCBS lube and many others. They all work if used properly.
You will need an L.E. Wilson chamfer/deburr tool also.
All the above stuff can be had on Amazon or the usual gun websites, or your LGS. Not too expensive.
Size, then measure, then trim if needed. I like either the WFT or the Possum Hollow. I am currently using a Possum Hollow trimmer with adapter chucked onto a corded drill. Works great. Here are the links:
https://www.possumhollowproducts.com/KWICK_CASE_TRIMMERS.html
http://www.sjsinclair.com/
http://www.littlecrowgunworks.com/wft.html
Yes a case gage is a good idea. I like the Lyman or the L.E. Wilson.
The RCBS or Dillon bench mounted primer pocket crimp swager is a good thing.
You will need some way to lube your cases prior to sizing. I like Hornady One-Shot. Others like RCBS lube and many others. They all work if used properly.
You will need an L.E. Wilson chamfer/deburr tool also.
All the above stuff can be had on Amazon or the usual gun websites, or your LGS. Not too expensive.
Size, then measure, then trim if needed. I like either the WFT or the Possum Hollow. I am currently using a Possum Hollow trimmer with adapter chucked onto a corded drill. Works great. Here are the links:
https://www.possumhollowproducts.com/KWICK_CASE_TRIMMERS.html
http://www.sjsinclair.com/
http://www.littlecrowgunworks.com/wft.html
notaglockfanboy
Member
If you are using brass that has been fired in your rifle, there is no need for a small base die. If you are using once fired brass from unknown rifles, then you may need the SB dies. If you opt for the SB dies, you will work the brass harder resulting in shorter case life.
Exactly.
If one does not have 223 Remington dies and planning to load for an AR-15, get the small base sizing die. A bit of insurance from potential chambering problems and it does not hurt anything.
In theory, the small base dies work the case more than a standard die, but the difference in sizing is hardly measurable with equipment that most reloaders have.
My experience with using small base dies for AR-15 ammunition is the case fails for some other reason, or I lose it before the body fails from small base sizing.
allen2259
Member
Since I have a Dillon RL550B I was going to use there die and conversion kit and the case gage. But when I look up price in trimming the case cleaning the primer pocket, hell that's a car payment.
So I will look at lyman and lee products
This is a dumb question but I got to ask what is a small base die, is that separate from my die set for 223?
So I will look at lyman and lee products
This is a dumb question but I got to ask what is a small base die, is that separate from my die set for 223?
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Gravedigger56
Member
Has anyone used the Lee Deluxe Quick Trim Case Trimmer?
I bought one and a .223 die but haven't had a chance to use it yet. I like the idea that every case comes out uniform with only a few cranks of the handle and it chamfers and deburrs while trimming.
I bought one and a .223 die but haven't had a chance to use it yet. I like the idea that every case comes out uniform with only a few cranks of the handle and it chamfers and deburrs while trimming.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
Allen, figure things this way. When it comes to loading 223, 308, 30-06, and a whole pile of other rifle cases there are those things which are must have like calipers, dies, and a few other things and there are the nice to have like a fancy power trimmer verse a simple hand trimmer. You start with the must haves and in time add the nice to have items. Since you have years of loading handgun you should have a scale, calipers and all the tools that apply to basic loading of any caliber. Start with the basic essentials. A simple case gauge, a set of full length sizing dies and you get the idea. There is no need to take out a second or third mortgage.
Ron
Ron
spitballer
Member
Still not sure if you're reloading for an autoloader, which I don't know much about. For a bolt you can probably get by with less: I use a Wilson neck sizer and seating die, which produces amazingly accurate ammo. But there are still challenges, like understanding and controlling neck wall thickness, a major issue when the brass starts to harden.
A small base sizing die is a die with tighter tolerances in the base of the die to resize the base of the case a smidgen more than a standard resizing die. The rest of the small base die performs full length resizing just like a standard resizing die.
A small base sizing die can replace a standard full length resizing die. Some manufacturers, like RCBS, make die sets that include a small base sizing die instead of a standard sizing die.
There are other sizing dies available. These are generally used by more advance reloaders wishing to accomplish specific resizing needs.
Neck sizing dies only resize the neck. Neck sizing dies are not suitable for cases to be used in semi-auto, lever action or slide action rifles.
Bushing sizing dies. These dies have a replaceable bushing for the neck. You can change the amount of neck sizing by replacing the bushing. These dies come in standard, small base, and neck sizing versions.
Body sizing dies. These dies size only the body of the case and do not size the neck.
Finally, Dillon resizing dies are made to tighter tolerances than most standard resizing dies to facilitate better operation of cases in semi-auto rifles.
Hope this helps.
maxxhavoc
Member
Yes, the case gauge doesn't measure diameter as much as it does lengths - I learned that here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=771648
No, the large rounds will not pass a chamber-plunk test, but the gauge said they were OK. On measuring the ID of the gauge, it is larger than SAAMI spec.
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