.223 reloads - hard to close the bolt

[mwsenoj]

I have some bulk brass (Remington I think, but I am at the inlaws 400 miles away atm) that I have reloaded by full length sizing in Lee dies then trimmed to .005-.010" under max case length. I have tried to fire these in my Rem 700 and I find that most of them do not allow me to easily close the bolt on my rifle. When I am able to close the bolt, I find that the case head has abrasion where the bolt has made contact and rubbed some brass off revealing shiny new brass and left brass on the bolt face. I am guessing that the shoulder is not set properly and may be causing the problem. I have not had any similar problem with factory ammo. Anyone have a diagnosis, fix or warning that could help me out?

 

[AlliedArmory]

Maybe need small base dies? Or maybe you did not bump the shoulder back far enough.

 

[mwsenoj]

So, being newish to reloading, how would I bump the shoulder back more?

 

[Tom488]

Turn the size die in a little bit more, until the sized case fits properly in your case gauge.

Oh yeah... buy a case gauge.

 

[AlliedArmory]

Yup, just screw the sizing die in more.

 

[mwsenoj]

Look out coyotes, here I come!

 

[kingmt]

If the bolt closes then shoot them. My Remington has a tight chamber & needs the brass fully sized in my dies. Well I might have a few ths but mine & my sons are both that way.

 

[steve4102]

So, being newish to reloading, how would I bump the shoulder back more?

Do This.

1. Put the Shell Holder in the press and raise the ram.

2. Screw the Full Length(FL) Die into the press so it is about a "nickle's thickness" above the Shell Holder.

3. Lube a "Fired" case (walls and inside the neck) and squash it.

4. Remove the Lube and try closing the bolt on it in the chamber.

5. If the bolt closes with no resistance, screw the FL Die into the press about 1/8-1/4 turn and repeat steps 3 & 4.

6. As you feel the resistance begin, slow down how much you screw the FL Die into the press so you are at about 1/16 of a turn, or "Fine Tuning". At some point you will not be able to close the bolt and you are extremely close to having the FL Die in the proper position.

NOTE: The reason for this is because the FL Die has begun Resizing the Case-walls down to the Pressure Ring. As it does so, the Case-body lengthens slightly which in turn moves the Case-shoulder slightly forward. Then as the "Fine Tuning" continues the Case-shoulder makes contact with the FL Die and is moved slightly reward(or slightly shortens the Case-head to Case-shoulder dimension).

7. Stop when there is a slight bit of resistance when closing the bolt on the empty case. You now have a "slight crush fit" for the case in that specific chamber, or Zero Headspace.

8. At this point I screw the die in another 1/16 turn for .001-.002 shoulder bump and lock it down.


Now that's the old way of setting up my FL dies. The new way is to use the Hornady Headspace Gauge, much faster and much easier.

 

[243winxb]

If the web has expanded from over pressure loadings, the bolt may be hard to close. Standard FL dies do not size into the web area. Changing lube may help if the press is flexing on sizing.

Lee INFO >Full Length die adjustment

When using our full length sizing dies for rifle cartridges, the die should be turned in to touch the shell holder and then enough more that there is no daylight between the top of the shell holder and the bottom of the die during the sizing process. This is the preferred method because the act of sizing sometimes results in flex that prevents the shell holder from touching the bottom of the die.

Lee dies are designed so that the shoulder of the case is not sized until the very top of the die has been reached. This is done for two reasons; first, we do not want the die to overwork your brass and second and more importantly, we do not want to invite headspace problems. Pushing the shoulder back too soon can create a situation that can eventually cause case separation and a dangerous situation.

If you notice that your Lee Die does not appear to push the shoulder of your case back, ensure that you are adjusting the die so that there is no daylight between the top of the shell holder and the bottom of the die during the sizing process. If you see daylight at the top of the stroke, readjust the die downward and repeat sizing until it disappears. If your case is still difficult to chamber, you can send the die back to us with a sized case and we can modify the die to minimum SAAMI specifications. Lee Precision, Inc.
4275 Highway U
Hartford, WI 53027.

 

[helotaxi]

Do This.

5. If the bolt closes with no resistance, screw the FL Die into the press about 1/8-1/4 turn and repeat steps 3 & 4.

6. As you feel the resistance begin, slow down how much you screw the FL Die into the press so you are at about 1/16 of a turn, or "Fine Tuning". At some point you will not be able to close the bolt and you are extremely close to having the FL Die in the proper position.

OK, this makes no sense. Why would the case chamber with no resistance and then resistance occur as you set the shoulder back farther? If the case chambers with no bolt resistance, stop. You're done. If it requires a moderate amount of effort, screw the die in a bit more and repeat until you just barely feel the bolt cam over on the round to chamber it.

Realize that this is the setting for max case life. For hunting rounds, you care more about reliability than saving the handful of cases loaded as hunting rounds. In that case, you want to truly full-length size the cases. Raise the ram, screw the die down until it firmly contacts the shellholder, lower the ram and screw the die down another half turn or so. What you'll notice is when the ram is raised to size a case, there is some "slop" in the press that is taken up. If you don't screw the die down that extra bit, the die won't reach the shellholder and you won't fully size the case.

 

[243winxb]

Full Length Die Adjustment

OK, this makes no sense. Why would the case chamber with no resistance and then resistance occur as you set the shoulder back farther?

At first you are neck sizing only, on a bottle neck case. No contact with the shoulder. As the die pushes the case body inward, it grows longer, till the shoulder hits the die. The faster method is, put a .005" steel shim between the shell holder & dies to start. If the case will not chamber, remove the shim & forget about it. Adjust dies as per instructions.

 

[helotaxi]

At first you are neck sizing only, on a bottle neck case. No contact with the shoulder. As the die pushes the case body inward, it grows longer, till the shoulder hits the die. The faster method is, put a .005" steel shim between the shell holder & dies to start. If the case will not chamber, remove the shim & forget about it. Adjust dies as per instructions.

If that were the case, then the shoulder doesn't need to be bumped at all and the case (and loaded round) will chamber with a simple neck size. Why on earth would you work the brass more from that point? If the case chambers in the rifle and then the die squeezes it to the point where the shoulder moves forward that you have to push the shoulder back to get it to chamber again, you might want to have the chamber looked at for being on the "generous" side.

 

[kingmt]

Makes sense to me.

243 gives good advice in his post that is worth reading. I wouldn't just disregard his advice.

 

[helotaxi]

My point is that if the round chambers easily on a neck size, what's being gained by working the brass until it goes through difficult to chamber to chamberable with slight resistance?

 

[243winxb]

If that were the case, then the shoulder doesn't need to be bumped at all and the case (and loaded round) will chamber with a simple neck size.

Yes, but we are not trying to neck size. We want the perfect setting for a FL die to just push the shoulder back a small amount. Finding this final setting will make brass that chambers every time. You should not neck size with a FL die, unless the case body has lots of taper. If you want to neck size, buy a neck sizing die.

 

[mwsenoj]

Turn the size die in a little bit more, until the sized case fits properly in your case gauge.

Oh yeah... buy a case gauge.

Just ordered a Lyman case gage for ~ $16

 

[918v]

If you over crimped them, you prolly buckled the case body and it won't chamber. It may have nothing to do with the shoulder or headspace.

 

[mwsenoj]

No over crimping here.

 

[AABEN]

When did you last trim the brass to 1.740 ?

 

[Hondo 60]

243winxb posted the quote directly from Lee's sight.
Using this you have no problems with the shoulder.

 

[918v]

Maybe you didn't lube the inside of the neck and the expander ball pulled the shoulder out?

 

[steve4102]

OK, this makes no sense. Why would the case chamber with no resistance and then resistance occur as you set the shoulder back farther?

Because at this point the die hasn't made contact with the shoulder, only the neck and case body. See "Note" directly after #6.

 

[FreddyKruger]

i had the exact same issue. my rifle is a Tikka T3. i had 2 shell holders on hand, one from the die set and the other from the shellholder set. i measured both and the one from the shellholder set was about 6 thou shorter than the one in the die set. i switched and the problem was solved.

This was Lee stuff.