223 the next loading?

[kmw1954]

I tried to ask this question once before but it never really went anywhere and I think part of that was the way I asked the question. So I will try this again as I am looking for insight and suggestions for combinations of components.

Currently have a load I am still working with and am now refining that one and will be loading 100 rounds of it as a base for my marksmanship building. So far it is equal to or better than any factory loads I have shot and even at today prices is relatively inexpensive to make.

Looking at starting a new loading to compare and experiment/learn with.

Currant load is a 62gr Hornady FMJBT with Ramshot TAC.

What I have to work with are these components;
Bullets.
Hornady 68gr BTHP Match #2278 100ea
Hornady 75gr ELD #22791 90ea
Berger 75gr VLD Target #22421 90ea
And of course the 62gr Hornady I am currently loading 750ea

Powders
Ramshot TAC
Accurate 2460
Hodgdon BL-C2
IMR 4198

The ELD and the VLD bullets were a gift from a friend at the range which is why they are not full boxes of 100... So if you had these components which combinations would you try first?

 

[Ifishsum]

68gr match BTHP with either BL-C(2) or TAC - I would be real surprised if you can't find a load with those bullets that is better than the 62 FMJs

The Hornady FMJs are better on average than most of that style, but the match HPs should be a good cut above. ELD/VLD style bullets have a higher BC but can be sensitive to seating depth which adds another factor - the 68s generally do not care.

 

[kmw1954]

From my studies of this subject I seem to have read that BL-C(2) preforms a little better with heavier bullets and I also just happen to have 100 CCI Small Rifle Magnum Primers

Forgot to mention also that these will be shot in a bolt rifle with a 1:9 twist.

 

[IALoder]

68gr match BTHP with either BL-C(2) or TAC - I would be real surprised if you can't find a load with those bullets that is better than the 62 FMJs

I second this! Accurate 2460 may do well with the 68's as well. I'd try TAC first, I've had great luck with it in .223 from 55-77gr Bullets.

 

[AJC1]

Tac is the ticket. I load 80s with tac but it's a little fast for heavies. Varget is my business but tac meters sooooo nice.

 

[peels]

I agree. Match bullets will perform better than FMJ.

I suspect you will run out off any given match bullets by the time you find a load you like...can you procure more? And do you have enough primers and powder to load all the components? Just a couple things to consider.

Of all the components you have listed, I have only used Hornaday 68 HPBT. Its a long bullet, so make sure you consult a Hornady loading manual for recipe. It was accurate for me with varget.

 

[kmw1954]

I agree. Match bullets will perform better than FMJ.

I suspect you will run out off any given match bullets by the time you find a load you like...can you procure more? .

I fear the same thing that by the time I work up a load I will be out of bullets. Advantage though will be that I will then know or have an idea if these 68gr bullets work and if I should buy more when they become available.

As Ifishsum mentioned seating sensitivity with the ELD/VLD I think I am going to hold on to those until I get more experience under my belt, both loading and shooting.

 

[Demi-human]

Ninety bullets are more than enough to find a nice load or discover if a rifle doesn’t like them, to avoid that type in the future.

So, @kmw1954. Would you like to start light and subtract powder? Or start heavy and add it?
You could even start expensive and go to cheaper. Either way, I would be using them all anyhow.

What are the rifle stats?
I don’t think an old varminter is going to run an ELD.
Nearly any newer AR will, old Twenties may not, depending on twist and all.

I think humans that notice seating depth preferences for an ELD bullet are a lot better shooters a lot farther away, than I am or could get to shoot. Many of the long bullets like a longer run to the lands, I’ve heard. However, I have great success with the ELDs right on the lands. Outliers exist. Or maybe it just doesn’t matter as much as I think?

Tac is great. A slightly fast powder with heavier bullets makes for a nice recoil impulse.
I like Tac, and Varget and Love CFE.
Clean, screaming fast and equal to Varget, in my audacious opinion.
I like handloading, but a difficult to meter or work with powder makes a wonderful, and much safer than liquids, fire starter.

I would start with the sixty eights. They will work just fine. They would take less seating die and powder charge change.
Then on to the more expensive, perhaps “pickier”, bullets.

I wish you great luck in your endeavor!
Let us know how it works out!

 

[Bartojc]

I would try the

Hornady 68gr BTHP Match #2278

With the same powder, in this case the Ramshot Tac. I'd be shocked if you could not get a match grade bullet to shoot at least a little better than a FMJ.

-Jeff

 

[kcofohio]

The Hornady's 75 gr. ELD (Extreme Low Drag) seating OAL is like 2.380" or better, per Honady. I don't have access to the manual now.
I bought an open box from a member here. Haven't loaded any yet, but TAC & BL-C(2) look interesting to me.

 

[kmw1954]

Just got back from PT on my back and read these last two comments. What I have found is that the Hornady #10 does not list a load for the 68gr Match with TAC powder though it does have data for the BL-C(2). But Western Powders does have data for the Hornady 68gr Match and TAC. So I could proceed either way. Try a completely new load with a new bullet and powder or start a new load with the same powder but different bullet. I can see were that may have an advantage as I would be able to compare how the powder works with a different bullet.

The Hornady #10 has a description for two different 75gr, one is listed as #22791 75gr ELD Match and then a #2279 75gr BTHP Match. The ELD uses a OAL 2.390 and in the preface of the chapter there is a note that the ELD 75GR cannot be loaded to magazine length. So now I also know that fact.

The feeling I'm getting from you all is to load the 68gr with the TAC which makes more sense.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Just got back from PT on my back and read these last two comments. What I have found is that the Hornady #10 does not list a load for the 68gr Match with TAC powder though it does have data for the BL-C(2). But Western Powders does have data for the Hornady 68gr Match and TAC. So I could proceed either way. Try a completely new load with a new bullet and powder or start a new load with the same powder but different bullet. I can see were that may have an advantage as I would be able to compare how the powder works with a different bullet.

The Hornady #10 has a description for two different 75gr, one is listed as #22791 75gr ELD Match and then a #2279 75gr BTHP Match. The ELD uses a OAL 2.390 and in the preface of the chapter there is a note that the ELD 75GR cannot be loaded to magazine length. So now I also know that fact.

The feeling I'm getting from you all is to load the 68gr with the TAC which makes more sense.

One thought on your powder choice. What do you have reliable access too? If you're low on it without ability to get more it's pointless to develop a long term load with it.
Partial pounds are what I use for bullets I'm just going to burn up. Or a last ditch on a rifle that hates what I'm trying to feed it.

 

[kmw1954]

Powder is not much of an issue. Have 8# of TAC, 3# of 2460 and the BL-C2 is relatively plentiful in these parts. The true limiting factor as for everyone is primers. I have 100 CCI 450 and thought I would burn those up with the Hodgdon as I doubt they will be needed with the other powders.

For now I'm off, back to the bench to finish the 100 62gr I have started.

 

[Random 8]

For the 75 grain bullets, both the Berger and the ELD, they will need to be seated longer than max COL...single load only. They are long range match bullets, intended for slow fire courses at 600 and 1000 yards. If you do not intend on doing this type of shooting extensively, they would be a good candidate for "use up" practicing your prone and sitting at whatever longish distance you have available, even if it's only 100 yards. BL-C2 would be a suitable powder, one of the medium speed sticks such as the 4895s, N140, R15, Varget (yeah, I know) would be better if you can scrounge a can. The Hornady ELD-M is my dedicated 600 yard high power bullet with Reloader 15. My personal best was 100 9x of 10 shots (wind got a little squirrely the second half of the stage) at 600 with a box stock RRA NM, it will shoot! You'll need a 1:8 twist or faster to stabilize them.

The 68 BTHP match should perform admirably with the BL-C 2 or Tac loaded to magazine length. I'm not familiar with the accurate 2460, 4198 is too fast for this bullet. I'd concentrate your long term development goals on this bullet with BL-C2.

 

[Nature Boy]

Forgot to mention also that these will be shot in a bolt rifle with a 1:9 twist.

1:9 may not be fast enough to stabilize your 75g ELD and VLD bullets

 

[kmw1954]

1:9 may not be fast enough to stabilize your 75g ELD and VLD bullets

As mentioned previously these two bullets were a gift from one of the regulars at the range I've been working. So I have nothing invested in them other than a new friendship. Still I think I am going to set these aside for now and work on improving my shooting skills and building my bottleneck reloading experience level. I do understand that these are more a Premium bullet and not just a plinking load.

 

[Nature Boy]

I don’t mean to discourage you. Give them a try, they may surprise you.

Premium or not, they’re meant to be shot.

 

[2ndtimer]

Interesting discussion. I agree with the TAC promoters, it should run very well with the Hornady 68 gr BTHP match bullets. I would expect decent performance with Accurate 2460, as well, as it is just slightly faster burning than TAC. BL-C2 will be OK, although in my experience, not as accurate as TAC or 2460. YMMV.
My experience with 4198 was many years ago in an old Savage with 1 in 12” twist and it failed to impress in any way, with mediocre accuracy and loads running 200 to 300 FPS slower than a multitude of other powders. Not sure I would accept it as a gift. You might check out mid south shooters supply. They sell a Hornady 62 gr BTHP bullet at an attractive bulk price that is far better than any FMJ.

 

[kmw1954]

Interesting discussion.
You might check out mid south shooters supply. They sell a Hornady 62 gr BTHP bullet at an attractive bulk price that is far better than any FMJ.

Thanks, I was hoping to draw some interest and it has. Has given me a few things to think about and has sort of re-enforced that old adage proceed slowly, don't go diving into the shallow end of the pool.

MidSouth Shooters is exactly where I purchased these 62gr Hornady. So far I've bought 1k of them and not quite thru the first 250pc bag. They have them still in stock but the price has gone up about 3c a pc.. Thought about ordering another 500 but I think I'll wait.

Nature Boy, not discouraged at all. just thinking it better to wait until I'm a little better prepared to take advantage of them.

 

[Random 8]

Just noticed the part that you are loading for a bolt action 1:9. You should make up a dummy round with one of the 75s and a piece of random brass. Start long and work your way shorter to see what your maximum allowable magazine length is. You may be able to load them at or close enough to the Hornady recommended COL and still feed from magazine unless your rifle uses AR magazines. They certainly won't be optimal in your 1:9, but may work well enough. The 75BTHP from Hornady will stabilize in my 1:9 carbine. That is a shorter bullet, but it shows potential for your 75s.

 

[sfl_gunner]

I’ve had great results with TAC. I would recommend TAC with the ELD’s or the Berger’s. I shoot berger for competition they are great too. I don’t have much experience with the other powders.