223Rem at 1000yrds

[TexasPatriot.308]

theres reasons why the 223 isnt used as a sniper round and why the Army and Marines pulled out old M14s (like I carried almost 50 years ago) out of the armories. the puny 223 wasnt penetrating the layers of clothes the enemy wore, meanwhile the .308 did a very good job.

 

[gotboostvr]

theres reasons why the 223 isnt used as a sniper round and why the Army and Marines pulled out old M14s (like I carried almost 50 years ago) out of the armories. the puny 223 wasnt penetrating the layers of clothes the enemy wore, meanwhile the .308 did a very good job.

Well, I'm not in the armed forces and paper dosen't require a whole lot of power to put down.

I do run a 308 winchester for my hunting rifle. Horses for courses.

 

[cfullgraf]

In my limited experienced opinion, the 1:9 twist is not fast enough for the heavy 22 caliber bullets that will be required for reliable grouping at the longer ranges.

For hitting a gong or paper, 223 Remington will probably do fine out to 1000 yards but since most of the long range shooters use larger calibers that should tell you something.

When I was working on a prairie dog rifle for a prairie dog adventure a few years ago, I felt the ballistics of a 40 grain 20 caliber bullet (204 Ruger) was better (flatter) out to a couple hundred yards farther than the 223 Remington. 500 to 700 yards was my benchmark.

There are better cartridges for longer ranges, most are for larger calibers.

For some dumb reason, I've built a 22 Bench Rest bolt rifle for my next prairie dog adventure. I expect to to do a bit better than the 204 Ruger but not by alot. In hind sight, I should have chambered it in 6mm Bench Rest. Maybe I'll order a new barrel.

 

[ms6852]

I did not think that a 1:9 twist would stabilize a long bullet like that, guess I was wrong.

 

[dranrab]

Calm day.

.

Drop is science. Doping the wind is art.

 

[Walkalong]

The more the wind affects the travel, the harder it is to dope, and it's hard enough some days as it is, which is why folks want the perfect combination of weight/speed, but the objective also plays in, what do you want to do with the load. Do you need speed, do you need to deliver energy downrange? Do you just need to hit steel, but with enough force for the spotter to see easily, but a good enough combination of weight/speed to make wind calls easier? Do you simply want to hit something with no time limit, just casual plinking, do you want to do it economically? Do you care about barrel life? Do you want easy cheap brass? Do you want to compete at a high level?

 

[rdnktrkr]

When we went to the CMP range in Talladega AL I took my Savage 223 and found 100 and 200yrds was easy to stay in the X or 10 ring, at 300yrds I was on the line sometimes in the 9 ring, at 1000yrds I was struggling to get on the target, at our home range with perfect wind, I was able to hit 24" steel regularly at 600yrds, I was running 62 and 69gr bullets that run well in my 20"ARs. I also took a 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 Grendel and 30-06s and found the 1000yrd target with all those and dialed in a Garand with some help from the RO. I think (know) there are shooters that can shoot the 223 at 1000 but I feel it's easier to do it with a different cartridge.

 

[gotboostvr]

Drop is science. Doping the wind is art.

I've heard that before.

I also know the 223 doesn't play real well in the wind which could make things tricky. But this rifle is a "trainer" not a Match rifle or Sniper rifle etc. It's raison d'être is practice, practice, practice.

It also doesn't hurt that the wind is particularly calm out here most of the time.

 

[Varminterror]

The big challenge for 223rem getting to 1,000, besides the wind - which is a challenge for EVERYTHING at 1,000 - is the fact the tiny case doesn’t pack much horsepower. It’s pretty common to see 223rem loads falling transonic shorter than 1000. A 77SMK, for example, pushed to 2800 at the muzzle will fall transonic around 850, so things get pretty interesting by 1,000. A 73 ELD pushed to 2850 will make it to 900, another 100yrds doing a bit of the hula.

800 is a much more reliable range for 223rem, but getting to 1000 is really just a matter of allowing enough target size to accommodate the transonic destabilization. Group dispersion (MOA) might double from 800 to 1000.

 

[gotboostvr]

The big challenge for 223rem getting to 1,000, besides the wind - which is a challenge for EVERYTHING at 1,000 - is the fact the tiny case doesn’t pack much horsepower. It’s pretty common to see 223rem loads falling transonic shorter than 1000. A 77SMK, for example, pushed to 2800 at the muzzle will fall transonic around 850, so things get pretty interesting by 1,000. A 73 ELD pushed to 2850 will make it to 900, another 100yrds doing a bit of the hula.

800 is a much more reliable range for 223rem, but getting to 1000 is really just a matter of allowing enough target size to accommodate the transonic destabilization. Group dispersion (MOA) might double from 800 to 1000.

I knew 1k would be stretching it. It's just an arbitrary number I picked way out there. I need all the practice I can get and if it can only take me to 750-800, so be it. My 308 should be able to ring the gong just fine when I get to that point. I'll just have to wait longer between shots for the barrel to cool and deal with some extra recoil.

Part of the reason for going with the Savage is once I know I've maxed it out I can go with something more suited to even further out with a simple rebarrel. Wether it be 6/6.5creed, PRC or a Dasher or something else. I'd hate to eat up a barrel suited to 1.5k practicing at 300-500 where the 223 will do just fine.

 

[Varminterror]

I need all the practice I can get and if it can only take me to 750-800, so be it.

This will be a happier and more productive life to live. 1,000 is fun though. Just do it on calm days and use a large enough target. I use my 24” gong for it.

 

[C-grunt]

theres reasons why the 223 isnt used as a sniper round and why the Army and Marines pulled out old M14s (like I carried almost 50 years ago) out of the armories. the puny 223 wasnt penetrating the layers of clothes the enemy wore, meanwhile the .308 did a very good job.

You might want to look up the Mk12, the SAM-R, and the SDM-R. There are a lot of dues taking the long sleep because of those rifles and M262 who were shot out past 600 yards. Not to mention the M249 SAW. I can tell you from experience that not only will a precision 5.56 easily penetrate clothing at long range, it will still go all the way through the guy wearing the clothing. I have never heard of 5.56 failing to penetrate clothing from a direct shot.

 

[C-grunt]

I knew 1k would be stretching it. It's just an arbitrary number I picked way out there. I need all the practice I can get and if it can only take me to 750-800, so be it. My 308 should be able to ring the gong just fine when I get to that point. I'll just have to wait longer between shots for the barrel to cool and deal with some extra recoil.

Part of the reason for going with the Savage is once I know I've maxed it out I can go with something more suited to even further out with a simple rebarrel. Wether it be 6/6.5creed, PRC or a Dasher or something else. I'd hate to eat up a barrel suited to 1.5k practicing at 300-500 where the 223 will do just fine.

If you are in the Phoenix metro area we can go to Cowtown and do it. Im a member there. If you have your dope down and can shoot I can almost guarantee we will hit at 1000 yards. Well more like 1030 yards. Wind is going to be a pain but it wont be hard to walk it in. Last time we took the precision ARs out there we had about a 70 percent hit rate at 920ish yards with my buddies 18 inch rifle shooting IMI 77 grain.

 

[JFrank]

I knew 1k would be stretching it. It's just an arbitrary number I picked way out there. I need all the practice I can get and if it can only take me to 750-800, so be it. My 308 should be able to ring the gong just fine when I get to that point. I'll just have to wait longer between shots for the barrel to cool and deal with some extra recoil.

Part of the reason for going with the Savage is once I know I've maxed it out I can go with something more suited to even further out with a simple rebarrel. Wether it be 6/6.5creed, PRC or a Dasher or something else. I'd hate to eat up a barrel suited to 1.5k practicing at 300-500 where the 223 will do just fine.

You will need to change bolt face to run a creed or a Dasher, the good part is those are easier to hold supersonic at a thousand yards.

 

[C-grunt]

 

[gotboostvr]

You will need to change bolt face to run a creed or a Dasher, the good part is those are easier to hold supersonic at a thousand yards.

Which isn't particularly complicated to do with a Savage.

 

[dranrab]

I've heard that before.

I also know the 223 doesn't play real well in the wind which could make things tricky. But this rifle is a "trainer" not a Match rifle or Sniper rifle etc. It's raison d'être is practice, practice, practice.

It also doesn't hurt that the wind is particularly calm out here most of the time.

I fairly recently bought a 223 target type rifle in hopes of stretching things out. I am interested in how it works out for you. You really don't have anything to lose.

 

[gotboostvr]

I fairly recently bought a 223 target type rifle in hopes of stretching things out. I am interested in how it works out for you. You really don't have anything to lose.

What'd you go with? I was outbid on a few Remington 700's and took it as a sign to try a Savage.

 

[dranrab]

Remington 5R HS Precision Stainless. I don't have it broken in good yet. I took 3 different loads using 3 different bullets to the range a few weeks ago. My bud and I looked at the targets, and he said "damn, that's good." All of the groups (3 shots during load development) were about 3/4 inch. I am wanting better.

 

[gotboostvr]

Remington 5R HS Precision Stainless. I don't have it broken in good yet. I took 3 different loads using 3 different bullets to the range a few weeks ago. My bud and I looked at the targets, and he said "damn, that's good." All of the groups (3 shots during load development) were about 3/4 inch. I am wanting better.

What powders and bullets were you using? I can understand that those results aren't where you want to end up, but it's certainly promising.

 

[JFrank]

Why do all these PRS guys have Chuck Norris beards ?
I also noticed he's not wearing the glasses rather has them tacticool on his hat.

 

[dranrab]

What'd you go with? I was outbid on a few Remington 700's and took it as a sign to try a Savage.

What powders and bullets were you using? I can understand that those results aren't where you want to end up, but it's certainly promising.

Various brass. Always Rem 7 1/2 primers.

65 g Sierra GK and 24.3 grains of Varget
Both 69 g Sierra TMK and 70 g Accubond with 25.4 g of CFE223

 

[dranrab]

I should note that when I mentioned "about" 3/4 inch three shot groups, I didn't measure. I was able to cover two of the groups completely with a one inch target dot and one of the groups had a tiny amount of one of the holes beyond the edge of the one inch dot.

 

[mjsdwash]

never gone that far, but have done 600 casually, with iron sights, and factory ammo. Yes the target was 2'x3', but 1800' is far away. I have heard a .223 with most bullets looses its accuracy at around 800 yards, but I cant say for sure. Longer bullets out of a 21"-24" barrel may get you there with a 1 in 9 or tighter twist. My 1 In 7 twist 20" did explode some cheaper 55 grains, but I think the excessive twist is overrated anyway. I have a load I use that shot a nearly (1.060") 1 MOA 100 yard group from my DTI rifle, with IRON sights, rested on a bench, and that load that load cost me 19c/round... and your not going to get that with the Sweedmoor. But like I said, I haven't gone past 600, because I never went beyond military sights but have no doubt a load could be made that does 1k if you have a long enough barrel.

 

[JFrank]

Which isn't particularly complicated to do with a Savage.

Does PTG still produce savage bolt heads?