.223Rem loads @ 300-600yds

[Duke of Lawnchair]

Good morning folks,

What are you folks using @ the 300 & 600yd lines as far as .223rem loads are concerned?

Until I get a 1-8 twist barrel, I'm stuck with a 1-9.

My shooting isn't varmint or any sort of game hunting. Paper punching, only.

Thanks in advance,
Jim

 

[P0832177]

I have a DPMS 1-9 upper that shoots 75gr Bergers loaded just off the the lands into very tight groups at 300 yds. I have shot 80gr Noslers out a 1-9 700P with the 26 inch barrel! I have used both Varget, TAC, and N540 to achieve the same results.

 

[dakotasin]

bha match cases
sierra 52 grain bthp matchking
cc1 br primer
hodgdon h-322 powder

 

[DevilDog]

For highpower, I use Varget pushing Hornady 75's out of my bushmaster DCM rifle for 200/300 yd lines, and Hornady 75 AMAX at 600.

I use VN-135 pusing Berger 73's out of my CLE built upper for 200/300 yd lines, and Hornady 75 AMAX at 600.

For both Hornady 75 AMAX at 600.

Your 1/9 barrel may work with some (or none) bullets > 69 grains. Those that have had success pushing heavier bullets out of 1/9 twist barrels tend to have that success with near max/max loads.

 

[Steve Smith]

In deference to Dakotasin's post, you should not be using light bullets at 300-600 yards. They will slow too fast and as a result pick up more wind drift. I could be wrong but I also believe that h-322 is a ball poweder. If so you should avoid that as well as it is not terperatur stable enough to use all season without load testing.

Some 1:9's are faster than others (believe it or not) and some experimentation is in order. I agree with DevilDog (you are John right?) that those who can push heavy bullets in 1:9's get their results with hot loads.

I suggest you try some Hornady 75 HPBTs and Sierra 77 Matchkings for 300 and try the 75 AMAX for 600. It is worth a shot. If you are all over the place, have a seasoned HP shooter to try them. If you're still all over the place, you may have to use the 75 HPBT and/or 77 SMK at 600.

RL15, Varget, VN-135, and VN-140 will all work

Oh, and use a Lake City case for crying out loud.

 

[atek3]

head over to http://www.nationalmatch.us lotta good HP shooters on that forum.

atek3

 

[dakotasin]

steve-
h-322 is a stick powder. at least if you consider something like h-380 a ball, then 322 is a stick.

i should've prefaced my post by saying that i am not a target shooter... just a prairie dog shooter. i use 22's for short range work (600 and in), and use bigger guns for long range work (beyond 600). perhaps the 'scoring' area of a 'dog (about the size and shape of a 20 ounce coke bottle) is larger than targets - i dunno.

light bullets... well, we are talking about 22's, therefore they are all light. and in the case of the 223, slow as well. so yeah, wind drift is a problem. i guess living on the prairie here it is just something i got used to and dealt w/. but yeah, you are correct that the heavier bullets will drift less, though it is really hard to determine how much less it is on a dog town; better yet, is there really a difference in 20" of drift and 35" drift at 600 yards? i say no, its just a couple extra clicks...anyway, there's my reasoning and why i like the load.

 

[wanderinwalker]

I don't know if the 1:9 twist is fast enough for the 77gr Sierra Matchkings (or my preferred Nosler J4s for that matter). You might be limited to the 75s. Again, you can only tell by experimenting, for your 1:9 my stabilize the heavier/longer bullets fine.

For a powder my picks are H4895 and Varget. I get more speed with H4895 and it is stable temp-wise, but Varget is worlds easier to find around here. Just stay away from Winchester primers in heavier loads and you'll be fine.

Oh yeah, follow Steve's advice and use Lake City cases. IME they are the lightest and hold the most powder in .223.

 

[Jim Watson]

My long range friend has a 9 inch twist rifle that he sticks to 69 grain bullets for. I don't know his load, but the rifle is a bolt action and he loads them heavier than autos.

Maybe you could mooch a few 75, 77, and 80 grain bullets off of other shooters to try to see if they stabilized before stocking up.

 

[Steve Smith]

Dakotasin, considering the 10 ring is ~13" in diameter, and I want to be in the dead center of the X ring which is about 6.5" in diameter, then 15" of drift IS a HELL of a lot.

I'll keep shooting my 80 and 90 grain .223s thank you.

FWIW, "light" is relative to BC. At 1000 yards, the .223 90's from an AR-15 outperform any match .308 that can be fired from an M1A.

Oh, for primers the Rem 7 1/2 or CCI BR4 works great. Avoid Winchester.

 

[atek3]

avoid winchester? over on Long range forums, Nationalmatch forums, from handloading for competion, and personal communication with Kent Reeves, I heard WW primers and WW brass was the way to go in 223. Are they 'all wet'?

atek3

 

[Steve Smith]

I don't know where you are reading, but VERY few of the Master and High Master Highpower shooters will use WW primers for the AR. If you will read the X-C HP boards (and National Match is one) and if you use the search feature, you will see that the majority of folks have had the same issues that I have.

I tell you what, why don't you try it for yourself. I guess my experiences, along with a few hundred other MA and HM shooters don't amount to a hill of beans. You stick a 77 gr SMK in a WW or LC case, put 24.3 grains of RL-15 behind it with WW Small Rifle primers and shoot it through a new barrel. You tell me what happens. Shoot 100 and I would bet money you will have over 20 pierced primers. Some would say "well, the load is obviously too hot." Fine..shoot a lighter load and I will use a better primer and shoot hotter loads and will get less wind drift than you, and will save points in switching winds. If you DON'T get pierced primers, you are the minority.

FWIW, the Highpower section of your website is not working. I went to see if you said what your classification is. I realize that that is not the measure of a man or a reloader, but it would tell me if you have enough experience in the game to make a statement on your own or to just base it on what others have told you.

Like I said, try it yourself and see which camp you belong in. The mere fact that there ARE two camps should tell you something. There AREN'T two camps about the Rem 7 1/2 nor the CCI BR4. There aren't two camps because no one has issues with them.

FWIW, I searched NationalMatch.us for comments by Kent regarding .223. I found where he said that his only experience with .223 was in a bolt gun. Again I would suggest that you A) take your advice from experienced service rifle shooters and B) experiment on your own. Kent is a good shooter, but he shoots a different gun than you do.

 

[atek3]

whoa there, calm down guy.

For starters, I shoot a match rifle, a 26 inch barreled tikka.

If you DON'T get pierced primers, you are the minority.

I'm sure you're right. I haven't tried hot loads in my gun. I shoot a 200 yd. reduced course, my 'accuracy load' was a 69 gr moly smk, LC case, WW SR primer, and 23.4 gr of varget (I know its a light load).

FWIW, the Highpower section of your website is not working.

thanks for the update, that was a link to a general 'what is highpower?' site, I'll update that link.

I went to see if you said what your classification is.

On a 500 point NMC reduced course my personal bests are in the 445-454 range, making me an "expert", I guess.

I realize that that is not the measure of a man or a reloader

that load I worked up myself, I fired two five shot groups per powder charge and moved up in 0.3 gr increments. All the groups were sub MOA, 23.4 gr was 0.26 inch, I called it 'done'.

Kent is a good shooter, but he shoots a different gun than you do.

I shoot a tikka.


thanks,
atek3


PS this was the thread i was refering too http://www.long-range.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3059

 

[Steve Smith]

WELL!

The full story is not only is Kent talking about a 26" barrel, but also using N550 which is a very slow powder. I use that poder for 90's in my 20" barrel, but for nothing else, and I still use harder primers. That powder/primer combo is probably fine with 69's in a 26" barrel (loaded soft).

 

[Catbird]

I have a Colt Match HBAR 6601 w/ 1:7 twist. My preferred load is the 69 grain Sierra HPBT loaded with 25.5 - 26.2 grains of W748 powder. I use Remington 7 1/2 BR primers in once-fired Winchester cases.

 

[atek3]

n550 is extruded right? any idea how well it meters through say, a dillon measure? Thanks for the advice,

atek3

 

[Steve Smith]

Atek, 550 should meter beautifully through a Dillon. It does on mine.

 

[wanderinwalker]

Put me in the camp of pierced-a-WSR-and-replaced-a-firing-pin. Now I use CCIs. I have found the CCI-400 to give me excellent results with Varget and 77gr Nosler J4s. Jury is still out on using the BR-4$ for 600-yard, 80gr ammo. I'm not good enough at it yet to tell, but I did have promising results seating my bullets out closer to the lands than I had been. Will report after the weekend.

atek,
I run my heavy-bullet Varget loads at charges higher than your 69gr load. Even at those levels I find velocity typically falls a little short of what is anticipated. My 77s clock between 2625 and 2650-fps, with my 80s running just oh-so-much faster. If it weren't for the uncanny accuracy, I'd switch powders looking for more FPS.

If it means anything, I made Master this season (my first season) over my first two full-course matches. I was loading on a Lee Pro-1000. Varget, 77 and 80gr Noslers, CCI-400s and Lake City cases. If I hadn't run into problems with an inadvertently mixed batch of cases (which caused chaos; my X-Die was giving me cases with a Weatherby double-radius shoulder) I'd likely still be using it for the job. I suspect I will resurrect it next spring if my father and brother begin shooting the same loads I do.

 

[atek3]

wanderin, you shooting an AR as well?

congrats on making master btw, that is my goal right now.

atek3

 

[wanderinwalker]

atek,

Yep, I am shooting an AR-15 Service Rifle with 20" tube. Box stock Armalite NM model (if you allow the fact that I've got enough lead in it to anchor a small warship! )

Thanks for the congrats. I was highly motivated to make Master. Many older shooters didn't think I should be pulling out all of my tricks my first year. Making Expert and then blitzing the Expert-class next season didn't seem like a good way to make friends with the ranks anyway. There is only one spot I want to be at, and that is at my very, very best. Next year I will start chasing my Leg-points and maybe even make it to Perry.

Oh, and shameless plug for Nosler Custom Competition bullets. Every bit as good as Sierras in my not-so-humble opinion!

 

[Jon Coppenbarger]

Steve how did you get on the national match and long range board as I am still banned? but oh yeah met him this year at perry and he seemed nice enough. offered me a beer. stupid arguments over nothing I guess because we will never ever change the nra's policy's of ripping us off but I changed that myself this year as I am runningy the prone state championships at bcgc at the normal distances. more than one way to skin a cat.

There are alot of loads to try out and work with ar15's in 1-6.5 upto 1-9 barrels and the best way to do them as others have said is to work with loads that others have used and start from there.

Most loads will hold the 10 ring and yes you will get a few x's in there also but when you find a load that works you will have a winner.

I know this does not help but my loads are my loads.
I will let you know what I use but the combinations are mine and were either hard found or shared by a few national champions and worked on from there.

I use sierra 69;s-77's and 80's all bare
also use moly 75 hornady's and do have some moly 75 amax that I will play with this winter.
Also use berger 73's and 75's bare
primers are br4 cci's or remington 7 1/2's
powder I use is vith n140 and n540 and that is all for now.
cases are either winchester commercial or olin produced l.c.

I have used rl-15 and varget but have switched to the vith powders with very good results.

I have a few plans on new combo's to try out this winter that look to be very helpfull but everything is listed above.
two loads I tried out at a rduced match which is fine as they were loads for up to 300 yards and even with a clean on one loads the second load I used in that match produced exceptional accuracy. 14 solid x's in 200 reduced prone and the 6 that were out were all my fault with slight light wind or lighting changes but I was shooting for group in the match and on a day with all the conditions right it should of been all x's. So that load is going in that rifle next year at 200 and 300. My new loads for 600 are still to be worked out but they will have to be better than my 600 yard loads of last year and they were very good loads as a few here can attest to.

As devildog once said two years ago and I do pay attention John is that you should always use the best powder, bullets and anything else you use if you want to get good results.

Thank you and I agree totally.

Jon