Sav .250
Member
If you have to ask, I`d do some more home work . Anything by committee still leaves the door open. J s/n.
257 Roberts vs. 260 Rem for this scenario
- Thread starter mshootnit
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GooseGestapo
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Ive got both. The .257Robt is a custom M98 with an E.R.Shaw 22" light contour barrel. The .260 is a Remington Mod-7 CDL w/20" bbl.
I had similar ideas as yours.
However, there was a fly in the ointment.
Remington chose to put a 1/11" twist barrel on it. That's right, 1/11" by actual measurement.
It shoots FLAT BASED, soft point bullets up to 160gr Sierra RNSpt quite accurately.
However,,,, A 129gr SST will shoot 4" groups at 100yds, some will fail to hit a 200yd target. A 140gr SST won't hit the berm at 100yds. Not enough twist to stabilize the bullets I wanted to use.
So, I've got a custom .257Robt which has taken over 100 deer since 1985. I've got another one that uses fat, .264" bullets... that's the way I see it...
With 100gr-120gr bullets, there's not a spits worth of difference in them. Only .007" is all.
With 130-160gr bullets, there isn't a spits worth of difference between a .260, 6.5-284, 6.5-06, .264winmag and a .270win out to 400yds. Only then, and only on paper (ballistics charts and targets) is there a significant difference.
Just my opinion from MY experience, and worth just what you paid for it...
What .308 Norma said.
Though I will say, the deer I've shot with the Roberts tend to flinch more when hit than those with the .243, and the .257" bullets make a louder "whop" on impact. Those that weren't bang-flops.
I had similar ideas as yours.
However, there was a fly in the ointment.
Remington chose to put a 1/11" twist barrel on it. That's right, 1/11" by actual measurement.
It shoots FLAT BASED, soft point bullets up to 160gr Sierra RNSpt quite accurately.
However,,,, A 129gr SST will shoot 4" groups at 100yds, some will fail to hit a 200yd target. A 140gr SST won't hit the berm at 100yds. Not enough twist to stabilize the bullets I wanted to use.
So, I've got a custom .257Robt which has taken over 100 deer since 1985. I've got another one that uses fat, .264" bullets... that's the way I see it...
With 100gr-120gr bullets, there's not a spits worth of difference in them. Only .007" is all.
With 130-160gr bullets, there isn't a spits worth of difference between a .260, 6.5-284, 6.5-06, .264winmag and a .270win out to 400yds. Only then, and only on paper (ballistics charts and targets) is there a significant difference.
Just my opinion from MY experience, and worth just what you paid for it...
What .308 Norma said.
Though I will say, the deer I've shot with the Roberts tend to flinch more when hit than those with the .243, and the .257" bullets make a louder "whop" on impact. Those that weren't bang-flops.
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I have no idea why remington thought that was a good idea....figured the debacle with the .244/6mm would have been a learning experience.
Thankfully OPs swapping barrels on a savage 10, or thats at least how i read it, so he can chose a barrel of any twist he likes in the 6.5.
The .257s harder to get a fast twist barrel for, and there are only a couple makers of "VLD" type bullets that can use them, which is the unfortunate catch 22 of the quarter bore.
I agree that there will be little difference in on game performance between a .257 and a 6.5mm bullet in the scenario expected. But the faster twist DOES allow a heavier range of projectiles to the 6.5. making it better for larger bodied game should that come up at some point.
Thankfully OPs swapping barrels on a savage 10, or thats at least how i read it, so he can chose a barrel of any twist he likes in the 6.5.
The .257s harder to get a fast twist barrel for, and there are only a couple makers of "VLD" type bullets that can use them, which is the unfortunate catch 22 of the quarter bore.
I agree that there will be little difference in on game performance between a .257 and a 6.5mm bullet in the scenario expected. But the faster twist DOES allow a heavier range of projectiles to the 6.5. making it better for larger bodied game should that come up at some point.
MCgunner
Member
It has been my observation for quite a while now that the wheel keeps getting re-invented, ever since Paul Mauser invented the modern bolt rifle and Alfred Nobel invented smokeless powder. There must be a thousand chamberings in the 6mm to 8mm range that all do basically the same job in the woods OR the mountains.
When I was a kid, I realized this. I got REALLY tired of the "best deer rifle" argument. Since then, I've gone through the trajectory thing, got a chronograph in the mid 80s and, before you could easily get an exterior ballistics software and PCs were affordable and useful for anything other than data bases, I wrote my own in BASIC for a Timex Sinclair toy computer, later a Tandy Color 3. All that playing with exterior ballistics did one main thing for me, teach me that I was right in the first place. Ain't a dime's worth of practical difference in most "deer calibers". Oh, sure, .45-70 differs from .30-06 as a 300 yard caliber, a lot flatter rainbow, but it don't take a computer to figure THAT one out.
So, these rifle manufacturers are devious. They'll try to convince you their latest and greatest and most up to datest chambering is a must have. Oh, yea, that 6.5 Creedmoor is just SO much better than that stodgy old .308. Yeah, you gotta have it. Well, think about it, just how many ways CAN you sell ice to Eskimos? If no one was convinced that he needed a new rifle, the industry would take a huge hit.
When I was a kid, I realized this. I got REALLY tired of the "best deer rifle" argument. Since then, I've gone through the trajectory thing, got a chronograph in the mid 80s and, before you could easily get an exterior ballistics software and PCs were affordable and useful for anything other than data bases, I wrote my own in BASIC for a Timex Sinclair toy computer, later a Tandy Color 3. All that playing with exterior ballistics did one main thing for me, teach me that I was right in the first place. Ain't a dime's worth of practical difference in most "deer calibers". Oh, sure, .45-70 differs from .30-06 as a 300 yard caliber, a lot flatter rainbow, but it don't take a computer to figure THAT one out.
So, these rifle manufacturers are devious. They'll try to convince you their latest and greatest and most up to datest chambering is a must have. Oh, yea, that 6.5 Creedmoor is just SO much better than that stodgy old .308. Yeah, you gotta have it. Well, think about it, just how many ways CAN you sell ice to Eskimos? If no one was convinced that he needed a new rifle, the industry would take a huge hit.
MCgunner
Member
Oh, and I've been handloading .257 Roberts for my whole shooting life. It's never had a large variety of factory ammo and the factory ammo that WAS produced was pathetic due to the low pressures they loaded it to. If you wanted it to perform, you had to handload it. I spent time, of course, working up loads and when I got a chronograph and quit flying blind, I figured it out pretty quickly that there were better powders than IMR4350.
In the early 80s, Winchester got about the best ballistics yet out of a factory .257 and they labeled it "+P". It was still rather mild compared to the possibilities, but at least I trusted the brass a bit more. A 100 grain silver tip was still lagging below 2900 fps from a 24 inch barrel with the +P stuff, but that was a nice improvement over older factory stuff and I killed a few deer quite dead with it, though not at long ranges. During that period of time, I was moving into a new home and went at least one season without a reloading bench. But, I eventually got back to reloading the round. But, .257 Roberts never was the round you wanted if you were not a handloader, even when it was popular in the 50s and earlier before the .243 Winchester became the latest darling of the rifle world to sell more rifles. Sure, factory .243 was superior on paper to factory .257, so lots of folks bought .243s. Some, like my grandpa, bought a reloading press. In reality, though, either one kills deer just fine. But, when the .243 came along, the long spiral into obsolescence began for the .257. It enjoyed a bit of a new discovery in the 80s, now it's nearly dead, I suppose. Too many "better" calibers, doncha know.
In the early 80s, Winchester got about the best ballistics yet out of a factory .257 and they labeled it "+P". It was still rather mild compared to the possibilities, but at least I trusted the brass a bit more. A 100 grain silver tip was still lagging below 2900 fps from a 24 inch barrel with the +P stuff, but that was a nice improvement over older factory stuff and I killed a few deer quite dead with it, though not at long ranges. During that period of time, I was moving into a new home and went at least one season without a reloading bench. But, I eventually got back to reloading the round. But, .257 Roberts never was the round you wanted if you were not a handloader, even when it was popular in the 50s and earlier before the .243 Winchester became the latest darling of the rifle world to sell more rifles. Sure, factory .243 was superior on paper to factory .257, so lots of folks bought .243s. Some, like my grandpa, bought a reloading press.
In reality, though, either one kills deer just fine. But, when the .243 came along, the long spiral into obsolescence began for the .257. It enjoyed a bit of a new discovery in the 80s, now it's nearly dead, I suppose. Too many "better" calibers, doncha know.Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I love a 24" #4 personally for most work, that being said, for the versatility etc a 22" #4 is VERY hard to beat, and the 50fps loss is negligible. For myself I'd go 24" but for the general population 22" is about perfect, but I'd definitely prefer the balance and steadiness of the #4.
Whos #4 we talking about? if its something like shilens than i agree thats generally the perfect weight for what I would like in 22-24" barrel.
Id also go with the 24" they look nicer, net a little extra velocity, and in my experience dont handle any less easily.
Id also go with the 24" they look nicer, net a little extra velocity, and in my experience dont handle any less easily.
darkcloud
Member
I had a 7-08. Prefer it over the 257 but I have no issues with my 257 Roberts. I use the 117 SST in handloads. Kills deer and antelope DRT. Holds together well and it shoots accurate in my rifle (an old custom Mauser). A BOB in a short action would make a GREAT deer rifle.
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