artherd
member
The deer won't know the difference. .308 or .270 is like being hit by a freight train inside 300yards (max rational hunting distance.)
Now, you could plug deer at 600yds with a .338 Lapua too...
270 or 308?
- Thread starter Sulaco
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The deer won't know the difference. .308 or .270 is like being hit by a freight train inside 300yards (max rational hunting distance.)
Now, you could plug deer at 600yds with a .338 Lapua too...
Vanguard 30-06
Sulaco, I also purchased a Vanguard 30-06 on Friday. It is the Sporter with a walnut stock. I would have preferred the .308, since I have a lot more of that ammo stockpiled, but do have several rounds of 30-06, too. I have a question for you. I need a quality base and ring set for the new toy. I wonder what you are using on yours. Also, will the two-piece Leupold base and screws made for the Remington 700 work alright on the Vanguard? I will be mounting a 50mm. scope on the Vanguard Sporter. Will I need medium or high rings for this large a scope? I will appreciate your guidance. Thanks in advance. By the way, my gun was the last one in stock and was marked down to $350 from the original price of $469. Best regards.
Sulaco, I also purchased a Vanguard 30-06 on Friday. It is the Sporter with a walnut stock. I would have preferred the .308, since I have a lot more of that ammo stockpiled, but do have several rounds of 30-06, too. I have a question for you. I need a quality base and ring set for the new toy. I wonder what you are using on yours. Also, will the two-piece Leupold base and screws made for the Remington 700 work alright on the Vanguard? I will be mounting a 50mm. scope on the Vanguard Sporter. Will I need medium or high rings for this large a scope? I will appreciate your guidance. Thanks in advance. By the way, my gun was the last one in stock and was marked down to $350 from the original price of $469. Best regards.
This might have been the $60 I ever spent. http://www.loadammo.com/
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Sulaco
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jlarry, Glad to hear you got a deal. I hear those walnut sporter's look nice. I bet most all of the Vanguards are gone now.
All 2 piece bases made for Remington 700's will fit the Vanguard/Howa's. I put Leupold bases and rings on mine. With a 40mm scope, I used the low's and I can just barely see light between my scope and barrel. I like it that low.
For a 50mm scope, you are definitely going to need medium or high rings. I am not sure which, though. The outside diameter of your endbell will be greater than 50mm, so keep that in mind.
The matte Leupold stuff is a decent match to the low gloss bluing of the Vanguards. Redfield may be a better match, but I am not sure. I like Leupold bases and rings and use them on all of my stuff. I haven't had any problems with them.
Good luck with your rifle and letus know how she shoots! By the way, what did your test target look like?
Vanguard Sporter Test Target
The test target showed two of the shots making one large single hole, while the other was about an inch to the right. The group was about an inch to the upper left of the center target. This was a decent looking test pattern. It is a very nice rifle with beautiful furniture. And, yes, I got the last one on sale. Thanks again for the info.
The test target showed two of the shots making one large single hole, while the other was about an inch to the right. The group was about an inch to the upper left of the center target. This was a decent looking test pattern. It is a very nice rifle with beautiful furniture. And, yes, I got the last one on sale. Thanks again for the info.
WhiteKnight
Member
I used a STD leupold base and medium STD leupold rings to mount a 50mm VariXIII with no problems (Remingon 700).
Wisconsin Bill
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okay, now which brand, model?
I am searching for a long range big game rifle. I discovered this site and the discussion for 270 or 308 and like the interaction and information shared.
I currently have a .300 Savage for WI Whitetail and don't think it will be adequate for Elk or Moose and long range shots (over 150 yd). Limited ammunition available and more costly, too. Any opinions? (Great rifle, otherwise).
I agree with the choice of 30-06, but now wonder if there are strong preferences for brand-model.
Feedback welcome. I would rather purchase a used rifle in good condition.
Thank you
I am searching for a long range big game rifle. I discovered this site and the discussion for 270 or 308 and like the interaction and information shared.
I currently have a .300 Savage for WI Whitetail and don't think it will be adequate for Elk or Moose and long range shots (over 150 yd). Limited ammunition available and more costly, too. Any opinions? (Great rifle, otherwise).
I agree with the choice of 30-06, but now wonder if there are strong preferences for brand-model.
Feedback welcome. I would rather purchase a used rifle in good condition.
Thank you
MCgunner
Member
I like light, short actions rifles and the .308 is very efficient in shorter barrels and very accurate. I vote .308 just because of that. Nothing wrong with .270 as a hunting around, though there's nothing really special about it. Heck, I like the .280 better, better bullet selection in a similar case with similar ballistics. I handload, so factory ammo doesn't interest me at all and I can load .270 or 6.5x55 or .351 Winchester easily enough. Availability of brass and bullets is about my only care.
Hutch
Member
Bill, are you settled on a bolt-action? There's tons of threads out here regarding the Remington vs. Savage vs. Winchester vs. Sako vs. Tikka vs CZ etc.
Mostly Ford vs. Chevy vs. Chrysler vs. Volvo vs. Saab vs. uh... Do Czechs make cars???
Since you're looking for a used hunting rifle in the most popular centerfire caliber in all of Western Civilization, I'd just keep my eyes on whatever local classified papers are out where you are, and buy the one that had the best scope on it already. To me, that means Leupold (but that can touch off another Ford vs. Chevy discussion)
Mostly Ford vs. Chevy vs. Chrysler vs. Volvo vs. Saab vs. uh... Do Czechs make cars???
Since you're looking for a used hunting rifle in the most popular centerfire caliber in all of Western Civilization, I'd just keep my eyes on whatever local classified papers are out where you are, and buy the one that had the best scope on it already. To me, that means Leupold (but that can touch off another Ford vs. Chevy discussion)
rockstar.esq
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- 1,475
Your question about terminal performance was answered pretty well earlier but there're a few pertinent details to tell the difference between cartridges. Kinetic energy calculations only consider bullet weight and velocity (at impact distance), this is somewhat usefull provided the bullet in question is designed to open at the aforementioned impact velocity. My personal criteria at this point is to consider how likely it is that the bullet will stop in the animal. I figure that if the bullet exits, some portion of it's kinetic energy wasn't transmitted to the target which is essentially wasted energy.
The shorthand answer regarding sectional density is to say that greater sectional density occurs with missles that're more like a long cylinder than a pyramid. Sub bores were invented after thier 30 cal counterparts and the designers made the bullets longer relative to bore diameter to accomplish decent terminal performance. The most famous of which is the 6.5 Swede round which was used on everything from chipmunks to elephants.
The final piece of the ballistic puzzle is ballistic coefficient which pertains to a projectiles ability to slide through the air. Higher is better because it'll lose less velocity resulting in less drop and wind drift.
Sadly, all these factors together don't really give a numerical representation of terminal perfomance. Thus we continue to debate such esoteric arguements as 9mm vs. .45ACP etc. A guy name Taylor came up with a formula called the "Taylor Knock Out" factor, which is ((bullet weight in grains * velocity in FPS * bore diameter in inches)/ 7000)
So using the TKO system for the .270 and .30-06 respectively you'll get the following. (100yd velocities)
.270 TKO = ((140*3215 *.277)/ 7000) = 17.8111
.30-06 TKO = ((150*3100*.308)/ 7000) = 20.46
.308 TKO = ((168*2600*.308)/7000) = 19.10
Using the same formula you'll see some wierd things as well. The .357 Mag will end up pretty close to these figures because the bore diameter makes a pretty significant difference.
The shorthand answer regarding sectional density is to say that greater sectional density occurs with missles that're more like a long cylinder than a pyramid. Sub bores were invented after thier 30 cal counterparts and the designers made the bullets longer relative to bore diameter to accomplish decent terminal performance. The most famous of which is the 6.5 Swede round which was used on everything from chipmunks to elephants.
The final piece of the ballistic puzzle is ballistic coefficient which pertains to a projectiles ability to slide through the air. Higher is better because it'll lose less velocity resulting in less drop and wind drift.
Sadly, all these factors together don't really give a numerical representation of terminal perfomance. Thus we continue to debate such esoteric arguements as 9mm vs. .45ACP etc. A guy name Taylor came up with a formula called the "Taylor Knock Out" factor, which is ((bullet weight in grains * velocity in FPS * bore diameter in inches)/ 7000)
So using the TKO system for the .270 and .30-06 respectively you'll get the following. (100yd velocities)
.270 TKO = ((140*3215 *.277)/ 7000) = 17.8111
.30-06 TKO = ((150*3100*.308)/ 7000) = 20.46
.308 TKO = ((168*2600*.308)/7000) = 19.10
Using the same formula you'll see some wierd things as well. The .357 Mag will end up pretty close to these figures because the bore diameter makes a pretty significant difference.
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Sulaco
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Originally posted by: Wisconsin Bill
I was looking through some of my older posts and saw you had revived this one back in February of this year. I don't know if you're still around, but I thought I'd let you know what my research has garnered me as far as brands go. I have owned a good many different brands of bolt action rifles from different eras and my favorite 'made today' is without a doubt, CZ. They are made like Winchester and Remington used to make long guns and they are done right. The prices are steadily increasing though. But in my opinion, you can't buy a better performing rifle for the money (or a lot more in some cases).
I was looking through some of my older posts and saw you had revived this one back in February of this year. I don't know if you're still around, but I thought I'd let you know what my research has garnered me as far as brands go. I have owned a good many different brands of bolt action rifles from different eras and my favorite 'made today' is without a doubt, CZ. They are made like Winchester and Remington used to make long guns and they are done right. The prices are steadily increasing though. But in my opinion, you can't buy a better performing rifle for the money (or a lot more in some cases).
Sav .250
Member
I`m not a fan of the 308.......a personal choice.
Even so I`d still go with the .270.
About the ammo question (availability) I don`t quite understand that.
I`ve been in lots out of the way places and they always had 270 ammo.
Come to think of it, who goes hunting with out any ammo ??
Even so I`d still go with the .270.
About the ammo question (availability) I don`t quite understand that.
I`ve been in lots out of the way places and they always had 270 ammo.
Come to think of it, who goes hunting with out any ammo ??
TCB in TN
Member
In my own practical experience the 270 IS a flatter shooting cal, but mainly when you drop to a little lighter bullet weight. Compare the .270 at say 130gr to the 308 or 30-06 at the 150 and you will see a difference, and further more the reduced bullet weight will give you a slight reduction in recoil. The 30 cal bullet carries a higher gr bullet better, but (at least in most commercial loads) lighter flatter shoot loads are easier to find in the .270. That said I no longer own a .270 and do have both 308 and 30-06.
There isn't just a lot of difference in any of them.- Status
