.270 Win. 130 grain SST vs 130 grain Interlock

[Thomasss]

Has anyone worked with SST for Deer Hunting? One of my children wants to go a Hornady SST bullet. He has been shooting my hand loads of Browning (Winchester) SP 130 grain. In the past he also has shot Remington Core-Loc and Hornady Interlock in 130 grn. SP. I assume he wants a more lethal bullet. My readings on SST is that they seem to explode inside deer and can ruin a lot of meat unless a heavy for caliber projectile is used. His current load uses IMR4350 at 2900fps and shoots, sub-moa .5 shooting at hunting distances of 50 to 200 yards.
Your thoughts?

 

[jmr40]

I think they should be fine on deer. Their reputation is that they expand rapidly and penetrate less than many other bullets. But deer ain't that big. You should still get plenty of penetration. Might want to avoid really bad shot angles. And I'd want a different bullet for bigger game.

Impact velocity plays a big part too. Most any bullet will stay together if you keep impact speeds around 2800 fps or less. It is when you start hitting game with bullets 3000+ fps that you run into the most problems. That would apply to the Interlock or Remington bullet as well. If you're going to shoot bullets that fast then the premiums start making sense.

 

[Slamfire]

Bud of mine uses the SST in 308 Win. Claims they don't expand if you shoot the deer through the ribs. He had deer run off, only recovered them next morning, all eaten by coyotes. However, he changed his aim point to between the shoulder and neck, where there is a lot more meat and bone, and that knocks them dead.

I would say, out to 300 yards, that 130 grain bullet is going to be ballistically stable. Past that, you have to shoot them to find out if they tumble when they drop below supersonic. It was a big surprise to find out that bullets that grouped well at 300 yards, tumbled at 600 yards

300 yards



600 yards



this was the biggest surprise, 308 Win, heavy match bullets that tumbled.

shot nicely at 300 yards



all over the place at 600 yards.





and its not the gun, its the bullet. Notice, prone group

 

[GooseGestapo]

Slamfire;

I believe you’re seeing two different dynamics at play. Not necessarily a barrel twist issue.
The Fusion bullets are plated and a slight difference in plating thickness will cause the degeneration of accuracy you’re seeing. I’ve never been a fan of plated bullets. Coating either.

The 190gr Sierra’s are a different dynamic. Could be run-out causing a degeneration of stability, or, simply a bad batch of bullets due to imperfection in core seating in jacket.

In neither case do I see a twist related issue.I have a Remington Mod-7 in .260Rem with a 1/11” twist barrel. Factory claims 1/10, but actually measured its 1/10.9”, so call it 1/11.

With a 156gr PPU RN, or Sierra 160gr RN, at 2,500fps it’ll shoot 1.5” and 0.9” 5-shot groups, respectively. With a 120-123gr SST, it’ll shoot sub MOA. With a 129gr SST, its 6-8moa, and a 140gr SST won’t hit the 100yd berm!

All of your examples are FAR from going trans sonic, so that’s not the issue either...

But, I’m not a SST fan either. When the 139gr SST .284” first came out, I bought some.
I shot five deer before I recovered one. That one was a 55yd downward frontal shot between the shoulders . The apparently unexpanded bullet exited the sternum after busting the spine with no expansion. Deer died instantly but bullet failed.

On the other hand I’ve generally gotten good results from the Boat Tail soft point Interlokts. I did get a bad batch of .257” 117gr BTSPT’s for my .257Roberts circa 1993. Loaded over accurate load of H4831.
After missing 7deer with 5-shots in Montana, (Prior checking of loads at 100yds resulted in 1”-3shot group. We put up a 24”x24” cardboard box at 250yds. None of the rounds hit the box except one hit in a full keyhole! I finished the hunt using 85gr Nosler Ballistic Tips, getting a large doe at ~370yds.

I pulled the bullets. There were definitely two different appearances to bases of bullets. Those with sharp edges and a ring in center were bad! Those with smooth rounded bases (as on a Sierra or Nosler boat tail ) were good...
I don’t think it’s the rifle or the barrel twist..... just bad bullets.

 

[Slamfire]

Slamfire;

I believe you’re seeing two different dynamics at play. Not necessarily a barrel twist issue.
The Fusion bullets are plated and a slight difference in plating thickness will cause the degeneration of accuracy you’re seeing. I’ve never been a fan of plated bullets. Coating either.

Took a set of .277 150 grain bullets out to CMP.

First started off at 200 yards with 150 gr Sierra flatbase at 200, then 300, than 600 yards.

Sierra's were stable at 300 yards



all over the place at 600 yards



Blew my mind, did not know what was going on.

Next test load, with Federal Fusions shot well at 300 yards



but looked like the Sierra's on the 600 yard target. I did not know what was going on, checked the scope and rings for looseness, same for the action, I figured the scope had broke. Did not take a picture because I was disgusted and thought there was nothing to be learned. But, still had a load that was a half grain more powder, and decided to shoot them up.

at 300 yards, good group



at 600 yards, good group



when I saw that, it came to me what I had seen with the Sierra's and the half grain lesser charge, was bullet tumbling. If I had a target further out than 600 yards, at some distance beyond those 150 grain Federal Fusions with a half grain more powder would have tumbled.

The 190gr Sierra’s are a different dynamic. Could be run-out causing a degeneration of stability, or, simply a bad batch of bullets due to imperfection in core seating in jacket.

I disagree. I also took 190 Hornady's out, and they shot well at 300 yards, and similiarly tumbled at 600 yards with the same loads.

I had talked to Sierra about the velocity needed to keep those 190's super sonic at 600 yards, and they told me to stay around 2515 fps to be around 1200 fps at 600 yards. Well, the bullets tumbled.

I did load up 190 SMK's in 30-06 cases, went to CMP Talledaga for a Bullseye Pistol Match, but the 600 yard range had an all day rifle match going and could not shoot my load at distance. I am curious to see if an extra 100 fps or so will keep the 190's stable out to 600 yards.

This phenomena of bullet tumbling is real, is not discussed in the popular press because the inprint guys shoot at most, 100 yards. Then they make claims about bullet stability all the way out to 1500 yards. I am going to state, unless you have actually shot your bullets at distance, you really don't know how they will act at distance.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Sorry, I don’t see “tumbling” bullets.
All seem to be well stabilized. Round holes!
That’s the limitation of “digital“ targets.

I’d buy into scope issues too.
I’m also seeing parallax issues.

 

[Slamfire]

Sorry, I don’t see “tumbling” bullets.
All seem to be well stabilized. Round holes!
That’s the limitation of “digital“ targets.

I’d buy into scope issues too.
I’m also seeing parallax issues.

If I had someone pulling the targets they could tell me if the bullets were keyholing. And that is something I saw when pulling 600 yard and more particularly, 1000 yard targets in NRA competition. If I pulled for a new shooter, and they were using 55 grain ball ammunition, it was key hole city at 600 yards.

Bullet instability is a topic that needs more attention, especially as shooters are lead to believe they can make over the horizon hits with wonder cartridges. I am going to continue to state, you don't know if the bullet is stable at distance, with your load, in your gun, until you put it on paper at that distance.

And even then, stability will change with air density. The more dense, the more the bullet slows down in the air.

Maybe the moral of the story is, for long range shooting, use one of those ranges that operates in a vacuum!

 

[Hugger-4641]

I have witnessed bullet tumbling first hand, albeit at closer range. It was sort of intentional. I had some extra 75gr bthps and I decided to see how they would do in my Sil"s 22-250. Loaded them up for about 3000fps. They didn’t group too bad at 50yds and made round holes, but at 100yds they were all over the place and made a perfect profile hole.
The 1/14 twist was just not enough to stabilize them.

 

[Random 8]

I had a .270 at one time, and I found the 130 SST loaded to near max over IMR 4831 to be too violent for deer at closer ranges. The one I shot near 200 yards showed better performance, with a pass through and evidence of more conventional expansion. The 130 accubond or a 140 Hornady SPBT gave more satisfactory results.

 

[GooseGestapo]

BTW;
Actually, those 190’s aren’t sub-sonic till 1,200yds with a launch of over 2,500fps per several ballistic calculators. They are on the order of 1,700fps at 600yds.
Might be something with the barrel harmonics if a slight change in powder charge over came a 600yd grouping issue.

Back when the Wimbledon long range matches were being reestablished, the Brits kicked our tails with their.303 Enfields though at a ballistic disadvantage. They were however, familiar with the nutation nodes of the MkVII ammunition they were using and used it their advantage.

 

[Chuck R.]

2900 is kind of sedate for a .270 with 130s, I've run over 3130 with both of mine, my latest is close to 3200 out of a 24" tube. Just about any 130 grain at 2900 is "lethal".

Bullet selection and shot placement is everything, especially when it comes to the fast cartridges at shorter distances. I didn't think there's one bullet that does it all well, hold together on close shots and expand at distance. Which is why I have multiple hunting rifles that see use depend on the terrain and expected shot distance.

For a do everything well type bullet, I'd look at something bonded, or monolithic. IF your average expected shots are going to be close, then I'd up my bullet weight to slow things down some. Back when the .270 was my only deer rifle I had 2 loads. Nosler 130 BTs at 3150 for open shots and Nosler 130 Partitions when I was woods hunting. I'd zero for the 130 BT load and the 130 Partition was close enough not to matter at woods distances.

Now a days I use the .270 or .300WM for open country, and a .260 or .350 Rem mag for the close stuff. The .260 and .350 are starting out at 2900 and 2800 respectively so they're not as hard on the close shots. Once my .260 gets back together I'm going to look at a 130 Nosler AB load and slow things down a little more. Both are Rem M7s with 20" barrels, so a lot handier in a blind or on a stand that go hand in hand with the closer shots.

 

[BreechFace]

All depends on what velocity you are going to load those for. Full power 270 at a shorter distance the SST I would think would be very ‘splody and would stick with interlocks. If you are going to download the load for youth and keep veocitoes more moderated than the SST should be fine, especially on thin skinned deer.

 

[WisBorn]

I have used both the SST and Interlock in 154 grain from my 7mm Rem Mag. I have always had exit holes with both bullets, at ranges out to 250 yards. If you are concerned with lower penetration go with the interlock just for peace of mind.

 

[Random 8]

I have used both the SST and Interlock in 154 grain from my 7mm Rem Mag. I have always had exit holes with both bullets, at ranges out to 250 yards. If you are concerned with lower penetration go with the interlock just for peace of mind.

Interesting. I used the 154 SST in a .280 Rem at one time. Out of 4 deer shot, one multiple times, only 2 bullets exited. One was a medium doe dead broadside lungs, the other was a high neck shot on a buck that had already absorbed 2 in the chest cavity that did not exit. The third shot was for insurance. All were at close range under 100 yards. The old 154RN interlock and Speer 145 GS and 160 Hot Core have universally exited for me even on challenging angles. I think my deer are larger bodied in MN, that could be the difference.

 

[Roverguy]

With the greatest of respect, sounds to me like you have already given him a winning handload in that rifle. If he thinks it doesn't kill deer well, best leave him to his own devices and brew up a nice batch of 'told you so' for later.

 

[Slamfire]

BTW;
Actually, those 190’s aren’t sub-sonic till 1,200yds with a launch of over 2,500fps per several ballistic calculators. They are on the order of 1,700fps at 600yds.
Might be something with the barrel harmonics if a slight change in powder charge over came a 600yd grouping issue.

Back when the Wimbledon long range matches were being reestablished, the Brits kicked our tails with their.303 Enfields though at a ballistic disadvantage. They were however, familiar with the nutation nodes of the MkVII ammunition they were using and used it their advantage.

I have talked to my F class friends, they are all pushing their 185 Bergers and 210 Bergers faster than I push my 168's!. None of them shoot the 190 SMK's, one shooter, who is a National F Class Champion in several categories, told me the 190 SMK's were not highly regarded, but could not elaborate. No one spends a lot of time on things that don't work, as shooters only care about things that work.

Anyway, I am going to believe what I see on target, and not what a bunch of ballistic calculators say.

 

[WisBorn]

Interesting. I used the 154 SST in a .280 Rem at one time. Out of 4 deer shot, one multiple times, only 2 bullets exited. One was a medium doe dead broadside lungs, the other was a high neck shot on a buck that had already absorbed 2 in the chest cavity that did not exit. The third shot was for insurance. All were at close range under 100 yards. The old 154RN interlock and Speer 145 GS and 160 Hot Core have universally exited for me even on challenging angles. I think my deer are larger bodied in MN, that could be the difference.

Doubt that there is much difference in the size of the Wisconsin deer and those in Minnesota.

 

[WisBorn]

I do need to correct myself.
I have not used the Interlock bullet. I have used the Interbond bullet and the SST.

I wonder how much the bullets have changed overtime.
I used an early version of the Nosler Ballistic Tip and thought they blew up. The current generation from my understanding has a better controlled expansion.

 

[Chuck R.]

I do need to correct myself.
I have not used the Interlock bullet. I have used the Interbond bullet and the SST.

I wonder how much the bullets have changed overtime.
I used an early version of the Nosler Ballistic Tip and thought they blew up. The current generation from my understanding has a better controlled expansion.

The newer Nosler BTs do, they changed the design a while ago. I was an early adopter too, probably killed 20 or so deer and 5 chamois with them using my Steyr in .270. At distance they worked great, even close IF you double lunged them. But, IF you hit a shoulder within 100 yds...ouch, lots of dog food.

I used a standard 130 NBT on an antelope in SEP, quartering away, behind close shoulder and through offside shoulder. MV was 3170, distance was about 245, bang/flop, no bullet recovered.

The NBTs are my favorite bullets, unless I'm hunting woods/close.

 

[Random 8]

Doubt that there is much difference in the size of the Wisconsin deer and those in Minnesota.

Your location tag says South Carolina. Those are some itty bitty deer over there!

 

[WisBorn]

Your location tag says South Carolina. Those are some itty bitty deer over there!

You are correct they are little here in SC

 

[Random 8]

Smoked one with my truck last year when I was out there visiting the wife's family, didn't even make the radiator leak.

 

[WisBorn]

Smoked one with my truck last year when I was out there visiting the wife's family, didn't even make the radiator leak.

Sorry to hear that. That's a great way to ruin a vacation.
When I retired in 2020 on my way to my current home, I was less than a mile from the new house and almost hit a little buck. I was so close I stopped and looked at the bumper to see if there was any hair!