surfinUSA
Member
Well Maverick I'll have to give you this one just on me being to lazy to research further. It had always been my under standing that the 270 and 280 were both necked down 30-06 derivatives.
.280
- Thread starter vanh
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Maverick223
Member
No worries, it is a common misbelief, and most other cartridges in the .30-03 family are based on the '06 case length. FWIW the reasoning behind the longer case length is solely to prevent folks from chambering those cartridges in a .30-06Springfield (which is by far the most common derivative of the .30-03Govt.).
rangerruck
Member
so then, are we saying, that if you were to go to the store, and open a box of 270's, and of 280's, that these both use different sized cartridges?
I want to be sure on this, so I don't spread bad info in the future...
I want to be sure on this, so I don't spread bad info in the future...
Maverick223
Member
It is hard to tell if you are serious or not, but they use the same case as one another (of course with a different sized neck), but different from most others. Most (if not all) other cartridges in the .30-03/.30-06 family are based upon the .30-06 case length (2.484in. vs 2.530in.). These include, but are not limited to, the 6.5mm-06A-Square, .30-06Springfield, 8mm-06, .338-06A-Square, .35Whelen, and .375Whelen.
rangerruck
Member
No , I was serious; it sounded like one was based on the .03, while the other was based on the .06. which I new were 2 extremely close to the same carts, and that the army changed their minds way back when, I just wanted to make sure, that in the future, if I ever wanted to rebbl something from 270 to 280 or vice versa, that other considerations wouldn't be needed.
Maverick223
Member
Both are based on the '03, but others are based on the '06. Therefore, it would be very easy to interchange the two, which could turn out bad (especially if using .280Rem. in a .270Win.) due to overpressure. OTOH inserting a .270Win. or .280Rem. in a .30-06 (et al) is all but impossible because of the case length (really the shoulder location).
It is fine to re-barrel to those (presumably from a .30-06), as the base and case diameter are the same (so you can use the same bolt). The only thing you must watch is the brass you choose if you decide to form cases from other cartridges. It would be fine to form .280Rem. from .270Win. and vice-versa, but doing so with .30-06 isn't recommended, though it would probably be fine as long as you cleaned the chamber before going back to the original cartridge length (akin to firing .38Spl. in a .357Mag.).
Maverick223
Member
Also based on the '06 case length (2.484in.).
longdayjake
Member
Some day I hope to be as helpful and informed as Maveric. I have learned a ton from this thread.
Maverick223
Member
I'm writing that down.
Keepa
Member
Vanh, you have a very good caliber there. I bought a 280Rem in a M700 Remington AS about 10 years ago and have shot about 25 game animals with it, mostly white tail deer plus about 6 moose and one wolf
I reload 139 grain Hornadys pushed by H4831 to an accurate 3000'/sec .
The animals were shot at distances ranging from 16 yards out to past 500 yards .
I've shot deer and/or moose with 30-30 Win.,303 British, 30-06, 308 Win. ,270, 32-40, 44-40 25-20 etc.....but nothing seems to kill like my 280.
I reload 139 grain Hornadys pushed by H4831 to an accurate 3000'/sec .
The animals were shot at distances ranging from 16 yards out to past 500 yards .
I've shot deer and/or moose with 30-30 Win.,303 British, 30-06, 308 Win. ,270, 32-40, 44-40 25-20 etc.....but nothing seems to kill like my 280.
Heck
Member
I am a big fan of 7mm bullets and I also like my .270 and my .308. I have taken 30+ whitetails and only 1 has been over 200 yards. At the ranges I hunt I really can't say any one cartridge is better than the other even though the .280 is balistically superior.
To the OP, congratulations!! Great rifle, great caliber, and congratulations on the retirement. I am pea green with envy on all accounts.
To the OP, congratulations!! Great rifle, great caliber, and congratulations on the retirement. I am pea green with envy on all accounts.
Maverick223
Member
First, welcome to THR!Keepa said:
Secondly...you used a .25-20WCF for deer and moose?
That is a mighty small cartridge for such a big beast.You might want to be a little careful there because Maveric has some of his facts backward. There is no way to chamber a .280 in either a .30-06 nor .270 chamber because the shoulder is too far forward. A .270 will chamber in either of the others but with poor, but not dangerous results. A .270 Win will also chamber in a .270Wby and IS dangerous because it will headspace on the shoulder and split in the chamber.
Reloaders will find the .280 more versatile than the .270 but hunters who rely on box ammo will get a flatter shooting cartridge with .270Win since the .280Rem is soft loaded to be safe in the pump action rifle it was initially introduced in. At 99th percentile hunting ranges there is likely no discernible performance difference. However, .270Win is one of the few calibers that is reliably stocked by one aisle stores 60 miles from the nearest Wal-Mart. Don't forget your ammo if you are carrying a .280.
Maverick223
Member
Right you are, just looked up the SAAMI specs. and I was incorrect about the .270Win. having a shoulder pushed forward (though it is based upon the .30-03Govt. cartridge), the .280Rem. OTOH does have the shoulder (and is also based upon the .30-03Govt./.270Win.). It is possible to chamber a .280Rem. in a .270Win. or .30-06Spfd, but doing so requires you to "crush" the shoulder (it is best to never underestimate folks).
Vanh, enjoy your new rifle. It's a great caliber with a proven record and so is the 270. Shoot the dickens out of it so you'll know what it does at different ranges.
Have a good retirement. I'm not far behind you and I only wish I could get that kind of a retirement gift.
Have a good retirement. I'm not far behind you and I only wish I could get that kind of a retirement gift.
Keepa
Member
First of all, thank you for the welcome Maverick223.
2nd, I posted that "I've shot deer and/or moose....etc., etc..." which I read as "...deer and moose..." OR "... deer or moose...." with such and such a caliber .
Perhaps I'm mistaken but that 's the way I meant/see it .
In my almost 60 years of big game hunting I have shot more than 200 deer and at least 50 moose, but I have never shot a moose with a 25/20 , a 44/40 or a 32/40....although , a couple of years ago, I was lucky enough to double lung a bull @ 30 yds with an arrow.
Good thing I didn't mention the big doe I shot with a .22 long rifle , when I was 13.....
2nd, I posted that "I've shot deer and/or moose....etc., etc..." which I read as "...deer and moose..." OR "... deer or moose...." with such and such a caliber .
Perhaps I'm mistaken but that 's the way I meant/see it .
In my almost 60 years of big game hunting I have shot more than 200 deer and at least 50 moose, but I have never shot a moose with a 25/20 , a 44/40 or a 32/40....although , a couple of years ago, I was lucky enough to double lung a bull @ 30 yds with an arrow.
Good thing I didn't mention the big doe I shot with a .22 long rifle , when I was 13.....
Maverick223
Member
Even for deer the .25-20 seems to be a bit on the small side. Never shot one, but it appears that it would require one heck of a shot to drop one (of course so would .22LR).
TexasPatriot.308
Member
used to have a Ruger M77 in .280 about 20 years ago and sold it...I was hunting way out in Southwest Texas, nearest town was 30 miles away and only took one rifle with me on that trip (dont ever do that again) the .280 when I got there I had forgotten my ammo. drove over 100 miles to find some ammo and found one box in a little border town and they soaked me for it, got rid of the gun next chance I got and only take more common calibers or double check my ammo supply before I head out....but I wished I had that same gun now. great caliber...not too much recoil, took out lots of hogs and deer at 300 plus yards.
Keepa
Member
Maverick
My two brothers and I were shooting partridge(Ruffed Grouse) in the head with a .22 single shot when I was 8 years of age(older brother was 9, younger was only 6 so he came along to learn only).
My widowed Mom would get mighty testy if we shot a partridge in the breast.
So it wasn't such a big jump to shoot a deer in the temple 5 years later( we needed the meat even though Mom had recently remarried.)
When using the 25/20 we would usually put a bullet high up in the neck just below the skull...I still use this shot placement if I need to drop a moose before he enters a swamp, lake etc....conditions warranting .
Mind you, when we were kids we hunted in pretty thick bush. Nowadays I prefer to sit in a heated, insulated shooting shack elevated 16 feet off the ground on the edge of my oldest son's hay field ,where I can see a deer coming for a long ways .
My two brothers and I were shooting partridge(Ruffed Grouse) in the head with a .22 single shot when I was 8 years of age(older brother was 9, younger was only 6 so he came along to learn only).
My widowed Mom would get mighty testy if we shot a partridge in the breast.
So it wasn't such a big jump to shoot a deer in the temple 5 years later( we needed the meat even though Mom had recently remarried.)
When using the 25/20 we would usually put a bullet high up in the neck just below the skull...I still use this shot placement if I need to drop a moose before he enters a swamp, lake etc....conditions warranting .
Mind you, when we were kids we hunted in pretty thick bush. Nowadays I prefer to sit in a heated, insulated shooting shack elevated 16 feet off the ground on the edge of my oldest son's hay field ,where I can see a deer coming for a long ways .
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Maverick223
Member
Sounds like you were/are a real rifleman, Keepa. I had a great-great-aunt (before my time) that swore by the 25-20WCF. She left it by the back window and used it to keep the foxes and such out of the hen house (shooting out of said window).
Keepa
Member
Like most country boys growing up in the late 40's early 50's we were expected to help put food on the table . We weren't too excited about working in the garden, picking berries or chopping wood but we sure took to hunting
We used to kill a few partridges with slingshots but we really started hunting when our paternal grandfather sent us our deceased Dad's old .22 when I was 8 . Mom bought us a box of .22 shorts , let us try a few shots(we quickly learned about "Kentucky Windage") and sent us out in the bush...we came back with 6 partridges .
'Course we had a dog (an english collie) that would put the birds up in a tree and stand there, stiff as a board to await their fate
We used to kill a few partridges with slingshots but we really started hunting when our paternal grandfather sent us our deceased Dad's old .22 when I was 8 . Mom bought us a box of .22 shorts , let us try a few shots(we quickly learned about "Kentucky Windage") and sent us out in the bush...we came back with 6 partridges .
'Course we had a dog (an english collie) that would put the birds up in a tree and stand there, stiff as a board to await their fate
Maverick223
Member
Sounds like you have some good stories, Keepa. I don't know about the other folks, but I wouldn't mind hearing a few if you have the chance.
longdayjake
Member
As I understand it partridge and ruffed grouse are different animals. I could be wrong but I hunt them every year. Here is a bird identification form from the Idaho fish and game. Sorry its in pdf.
http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/cms/hunt/rules/ug/ident.pdf
williamedward
Member
The .280 is a great all round rifle cartridge. However you listed you hunt for deer, hogs and varmints. IMO the .243 Winchester is just the ticket for that range of game. The .280 would be much more at home hunting deer up through elk and moose.
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