2nd Amendment lost in CT today

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I'm not holding my breath. Connecticut is already lost we should put our effort into preventing more states from falling.

Somehow I agree. I really don't believe in abandoning any individual 2A fight because it makes it easier to be repeated. However, in light of what these states have done I feel it is best to exodus. Movement of the people.

Remove yourself & stop giving them your tax dollars. Let them alone with the wolves who don't follow any law. With less police to defend themselves due to the lost revinue. Vote with your wallet
 
For all those saying this will go to SCOTUS, keep in mind that it will have to go through the 2nd Circuit first, and that's a circuit that I would not expect to be pro-gun. Still a long way from the Sup Ct even agreeing to hear the case, much less ruling on it.

This case seems to be generally in line with the one from NY a few weeks ago. Both recognize that the 2nd amendment provides some interest in semi-automatic rifles, but then concludes that the regulation in question passes some level of scrutiny and the burden on the right is therefore permissible. The courts in question seem to acknowledge the existence of a right, but credulously accept virtually any determination that the legislatures make regarding the need/benefits of particular legislation. They seem to be applying the lowest level of scrutiny; Heller doesn't make it super clear what level of scrutiny is supposed to be applied, although the rejection of "balancing" suggests that the lowest level of scrutiny is probably not right.
 
I can "carry by hand" an awful lot. An RPG, for example. Things I can't own now.

That's where the "common use" test/language comes in. RPG's are not in common use by civilians, so they're not covered/protected at all.
 
WRONG QUESTION: "Doesn't 'shall not be infringed' mean we can have nuclear bombs?"

RIGHT QUESTION: "From whence comes the governments right to have a nuclear bomb?"

Think at least 3 or 4 steps past the obvious response, and see where you wind up.
 
Want a howitzer? Get thee a Curio and Relic FFL and order one to your front door -the British 4.5 inch howitzer is on the NFA/C&R list. Several German 75mm guns listed. Prior to NFA '34 you could order a Thompson submachinegun through the mail. Prior to GCA '68 you could get mortars, rocket launchers, etc. I'm told there used to be "mortar meets" where American civilians with German and Russian surplus mortars would compete. No pictures, just what I've read.
If "common use" is ever actually used, ownership of an AR-15 will practically be mandatory - the first models of M-16 qualify for curio and relic nowadays...
 
I would say a semiautomatic rifle that has standard capacity 30 round magazines would certainly be a "common use" item. There's millions of them....and countless magazines to go with them.

So he basically says:
This law infringes upon your second amendment rights
The second amendment says they shall not be infringed upon
This is still constitutional

Huh? If we could all use this kind of logic and get away with it we would be in big trouble.
 
There needs to be a focused effort on re-defining "assault weapon." An AR-15 is NOT an assault weapon.

That is a significant part of the problem, IMHO.

I realize that Congress WAS allowed to define the term under the former AWB, however, since that simple connotation garners such polarizing views, I think it would be in our best interest to re-define this term.

Thanks
 
There needs to be a focused effort on re-defining "assault weapon." An AR-15 is NOT an assault weapon.

That is a significant part of the problem, IMHO.

I realize that Congress WAS allowed to define the term under the former AWB, however, since that simple connotation garners such polarizing views, I think it would be in our best interest to re-define this term.

Thanks

There is no need to "redefine" an assault weapon. It's already adequately and properly defined. What needs to happen is getting the actual, proper (correct) definition out and in common use for the average Joe on the street.

Because you're correct...it IS a significant part of the problem.
 
I can "carry by hand" an awful lot. An RPG, for example. Things I can't own now.
Technically you "can" own an RPG...by purchasing a $200 tax stamp for each round. But I totally understand your point. On the particular TV program where I saw Scalia make that statement he specifically referenced handheld missile launchers and said that was something that would need to be worked out. Whatever that means...
 
call or send letters to the manufactures in Conn. and state that you will not purchase any of their firearms until they move out of Conn.

Perhaps you should contact the NSSF to promote your brilliant idea!
 
"shall not be infringed" when taken literally would, of course, mean no infringement at all on the right to keep and bear arms. So, using that premise I should be able to keep an atomic explosive weapon in my basement and a 88 mm howitzer in my front yard. So, it becomes a dicey conundrum for the courts and the citizens to decide where infringement begins.
Just to point out since I hear the 'nuke argument' from a lot of antis, the Second Amendment applies to personal firearms, not large scale explosives. Personal firearms are what we fight for. (Although I would love to be able to own some heavy artillery) :D
 
"shall not be infringed" when taken literally would, of course, mean no infringement at all on the right to keep and bear arms. So, using that premise I should be able to keep an atomic explosive weapon in my basement and a 88 mm howitzer in my front yard. So, it becomes a dicey conundrum for the courts and the citizens to decide where infringement begins.


First off you should get your terminology correct, There is no such thing as an "Atomic explosive" that you are referring too. Now I will make the assumption that you are really referring to a thermonuclear weapon.

As to the howitzer thats not a problem as long as the paperwork has been done.

As to the PU-239 and U-235 that you seem to think you can keep in your basement, well you can't. It's illegal for you to own PU-239 or U-235. I'm also quite sure any HOA would look unfavorably on your storage of such Hazardous material as would your neighbors, your local,state and national government.
 
Did you all know that the NSSF is based in NEWTOWN CT?
That is why I was mocking Queen of Thunder's asinine suggestion. Perhaps we should boycott Texas companies for their gun laws: no open carry, 51% laws, 30.06 laws, no campus carry, not honoring states permits, etc.
 
It truly gets tiring to hear folks say "just move" whenever a law we don't like get passed.

For now I'm standing my ground and fighting! Well, at least I contribute regularly to the CCDL defense fund. I encourage all gun owners to help out here, even those from the great state of Texas...

http://ccdl.us/
 
Especially when they are likely footing some portion of the defendants' bills in these cases by way of the NRA and others :rolleyes:

"It truly gets tiring to hear folks say "just move" whenever a law we don't like get passed."
It's even more tiring to hear folks say "we can't do anything, it's inevitable." Lot of that in the NY thread (as well as a lot of NYer activists who believe it to be anything but)

Regarding the ridiculous assertions about nukes;
Anyone capable of buying/stealing/assembling a nuke has power in excess of a nation state. He'll get what he wants, regardless, by whatever channels are available to him. He will buy out owners, hire thieves and armies, bribe officials, and do it all in secret if he can't do so legitimately. The system of Checks and Balances is such in this country that no human can possibly claim this level of authority over others; even Mr. Buffet probably couldn't afford all the cost associated with obtaining a Nuke if he suddenly went senile and desired one.

If nukes become the standard armament in warfare, you better hope to God we all have them, too. And don't think that if a chunk of the US rebelled and didn't have some silos under their command, that their nuclear annihilation would not be on the table. Would Texans secede if they knew Austin, Dallas, and Houston would be incinerated? (wait, don't answer that :D)

Luckily, the Cold War showed mankind that escalation of pure force is dumb way to gain territory (you can't; it's destroyed and glowing). Instead, efficient influence and subversion are the orders of the day, and such things, being complicated, require lots of data and access to data. It's far scarier to think of weapons like those utilized by the NSA being beyond the contradiction of US citizens. Winston won't even have the pretense of a secret journal to write "Down with Big Brother" in at the rate encryption is failing (the double-agent network is already solidly in play, though)

I do like the "scale of force" arguments, though, because they always fall back onto the same tired fallacies as magazine capacity restrictions; how big a bore, how short a barrel, how fast a rate of fire, how accurate, how powerful, how explosive, how effective? Limit any of these, you limit them all, and there is no way to logically pick a spot to draw the line, which means it will be drawn arbitrarily --something law is not supposed to be.

I love the line about "arms being man-portable;" what about the quadriplegic who want's to deer hunt with a turreted-rifle and controller, or the 90yo veteran who can no longer lift his original machine gun. What about Jesse Freakin' "The Body" Ventura being able to carry a minigun, for crying out loud! :D What an intellectually lazy thing for someone as intelligent and reasoned as Justice Scalia to say ("that will have to be worked out"). Well, it was 'worked out' nearly 100 years ago, and with some very shady and poorly written legislation that such lazy and cowardly thinking was complicit in enforcing arbitrarily. Somehow the riddle remains unanswered (let alone solved).

Very disappointing, but it does also sound exactly like the type of thing someone on the track towards The Second Amendment Epiphany would say, so perhaps there's hope for him yet :). I weep for Connecticut's lack of resolution, but such a conflicted and uncertain ruling seems all but destined for a higher court. Many times, judges realize they simply don't have the authority to rule, but are too proud to admit that and turn over the ball rather than punting. Sadly, the higher the decision goes, the greater the stakes, and the increased likelihood of another short drive (it's actually a cool self-limiting governor on how much judges feel they can get away with, and the real reason I think for SCOTUS captilation on O'Care; they didn't think they could get away with kicking Goliath in the stones and walk away undamaged ;) )

""While the act burdens the plaintiffs' Second Amendment rights, it is substantially related to the important governmental interest of public safety and crime control," Covello ruled."
Does anyone have a more extended transcript or opinion? I am curious if this statement, like so many it resembles, was supported in any way by the speaker/writer. As we all know, laws like these are hardly "substantially" correlated to crime reduction or public safety in general, so it is very odd for a judge to make such a claim offhand as a central portion of his opinions. Especially considering how the whole purpose of their opinions is to illustrate how they arrive at their conclusions logically (case law, precedent, etc.), rather than what their gut tells them. I sincerely hope he isn't actually ruling that core Constitutional protections may be infringed based on a conflicting law's good intentions, which is closer to the nature of the relationship between gun laws and crime/public safety/gun violence.

TCB
 
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You'd better believe that the founding fathers included cannon in their definition of "arms", and yes, a few private parties, and more than a few towns had them, in 1776. Removing yourself from those states is "tiresome"? Know what's more tiresome? Guys complaining about the gun restrictions in such states, while they arel living under such tyranny and funding our enemies!
 
Strange...

Anyone else find it strange that just a month ago we had registrations of said assault weapons and magazines and now we have this? What a coincidence it is so close together. Now I guess they can go round up all of these things that were registered since they are now banned. Or, are they grandfathered in, or were they forced to get rid of them like NY? Someone school me on this.

As far as the ruling goes, this guy is either really smart and has another plan or he is really stupid. He is basically saying that it is perfectly fine for civvies to own handguns, which he justified by the Heller decision in 2008, but says those same people cannot have what he calls "assault weapons." Funny how his so called assault weapons are used in like less than 2% of gun related crime and handguns are used in 90+% gun related crimes. There is no logic to his ruling at all. He is indeed an idiot or has something else up his sleeve.

And, the deal about police and ex-military being able to still have them because they have been properly trained is so asinine I am not even sure where to begin. I don't know about CT but where I live cops are required to qualify 1-2 times a year. Most will tell you that they never shoot outside of that required amount. Now compare that to the average regular range guy. Really? More trained? Wow. I would love to have a friend competition between the best ex-military guy they can find vs. come civvies I know. I would bet the farm that the civvies can run the so called assault weapon better. Just saying. Now if we are talking a special forces operative that shoots millions upon millions of practice rounds vs. a civvie then maybe just maybe they can run it better but then again thats not the average military guy or police officer is it?

Now, what the heck are we going to do about this? I fear that if this goes to the USSC it may not go in our favor. Then what?
 
Also funny how "assault weapons of war" are explicitly allowed for civilian possession courtesy of ye olde US v. Miller. The courts, by accident, have actually ruled we have the right to bear anything available (perhaps not guns unavailable, which would have to be guns we make ourselves). But since politicians as well as judges are as yet unwilling to admit that, we live in this contradictory little delusion that Miller doesn't exist, but McDonald does, or the reverse depending on the case being considered. The 2nd only applies to arms suitable for Militia activies, yet reasonable restrictions may prevent individuals from acquiring the same.

Brilliant little way for them to rule whichever way they feel on whatever gun-classification case is brought before them ;). Read up on some of Ginsberg's opinions; she seems to have a knack for bringing a strongly preconceived outcome to the table, then reverse-rationalizing a roundabout sort-logical maze of conflicting precedent to reach the conclusion desired. A sort of "Do Not Enter" & "Use Other Door" approach to decision-making

TCB
 
That is why I was mocking Queen of Thunder's asinine suggestion. Perhaps we should boycott Texas companies for their gun laws: no open carry, 51% laws, 30.06 laws, no campus carry, not honoring states permits, etc.


Asinine suggestion? Well its a lot better than your defeatist attitude.

Back to the subject at hand. I've been a self funded government watchdog in my community for nearly 20 years and I've seen the power that as few as 10 people have. I've seen small groups completely derail needed projects. Ten people, just regular folks showing up at a city council meeting in opposition to a project and getting their way. I know the power of participation and I've seen it first hand. Its more powerful than money or influence and it works.

Instead of posting here or other forums people need to just sit down and compose a letter, print it out, sign there name to it and mail it or just make a phone call. You see when you do that there is an immediate realization that there is a person, a real person concerned about the issue and not some mass email event. Phone calls and letters with your name are personal whereas emails are impersonal and carry less weight with the recipient of the email.

All we need is 1% of the gun owners to send that letter or make that call and followup with an email. Keep in mind that that 1% equals 1,000,000 gun owners and no business can turn away from that many present or future customers. If 5% or 10% were to actually make that call or send that letter then CEO's and Board of Directors are going to start making decisions to leave a state like Conn.

Since I don't live in Conn. I can't vote out fools that pass laws like they have in that state. As a customer of firms located in that state I can choose not to spend my money with them. Buying from companies located in Conn. is supporting the very laws that they passed. I can't do that.
 
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