2nd Amendment, Silveira and the Supreme Court (threads merged)

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FRIZ

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Some 2nd Amendment lawyers help the gun-ban side.

National Review
September 22, 2003

Secret Weapon
Some 2nd Amendment lawyers help the gun-ban side.

By Dave Kopel

EDITOR'S NOTE: This article is the first of two parts on Second Amendment litigation.

http://www.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopel200309221255.asp

The gun-prohibition lobbies have what amounts to a secret weapon. Even better, from the point of view of the gun-prohibition lobbies, this secret weapon is entirely funded by naïve gun owners.

This secret weapon is the attorneys who mount ill-considered constitutional challenges to gun laws, setting up gun rights to lose quickly, rather than to win with deliberation. Perhaps the most infamous of these cases was Quillici v. Morton Grove, although the harm done by that case may eventually be overshadowed by a current case in California, Silveira v. Lockyer.

In 1981, the Chicago suburb of Morton Grove banned handguns. Prospects for a state-court legal challenge to the prohibition ordinance appeared good; the Illinois constitution had been rewritten in 1970, and had added an explicit individual right to keep and bear arms. Even better, the Illinois constitutional-convention debate had raised the issue of handgun prohibition, and the convention's affirmative vote for the constitutional right was a rejection of the argument that handgun prohibition should be allowed.

Prospects for a federal court legal challenge to the handgun prohibition were terrible. In the 1980 U.S. Supreme Court case United States v. Lewis, the Court came close to stating that the Second Amendment is not an individual right, in a footnote written by Justice Harry Blackmun. Now in the decades before Lewis, there were many Supreme Court cases recognizing the Second Amendment as an individual right, and there have been several such cases since 1990. But as of 1981, Lewis was the Court's last word on the subject, and the Court was, at best, indifferent to Second Amendment rights.

So the National Rifle Association and the Second Amendment Foundation both began making plans for a lawsuit challenging the handgun ban under the Illinois constitution.

But the NRA and SAF were beaten into court by a lawyer determined to make a name for himself, by being the named party and the lead counsel in the case: Victor D. Quilici. The day after the ordinance was enacted, Quilici filed a case in the Cook county circuit court. Besides raising Illinois constitutional issues, he raised claims under the Second and Fourteenth Amendments of the U.S. Constitution.

Because Quilici's claim involved federal issues, the lawyers for Morton Grove were able to file a motion to have the case removed to federal court. The NRA asked Quilici to dismiss the federal claims from his case, so the case could go back to state court. He refused.

A large coalition of state attorneys general petitioned the federal judge to hold the case in abeyance, and not to interpret the Illinois constitution. Rather, said the attorneys general, the federal court should wait until Illinois courts had an opportunity to interpret the Illinois constitution.

Federal courts often show such deference to state courts on matters of state law. The antigun federal district judge, however, apparently recognized a golden opportunity. He proceeded expeditiously with the case of Quilici v. Morton Grove. Soon, he issued a ruling holding that the Illinois constitution right to arms did not forbid banning handguns, and that the federal Second Amendment did not prevent any type of gun ban.

The decision was affirmed 2-1 by a Seventh Circuit panel. Judge Bauer wrote the majority opinion, in which he stated that the original intent and history of the Second and Fourteenth Amendment was irrelevant. Seven weeks before oral argument, Bauer had appeared on the Miller's Court television show, and said that he thought an ordinance banning all firearms would be constitutional. Despite this obvious bias, Judge Bauer refused to recuse himself from the case.

Fortunately, the U.S. Supreme Court did not grant certiorari in the case, for the Second Amendment probably would have lost if the Court had taken the case. We would then be stuck with an explicit anti-rights holding — given the signal that the Court sent in Lewis. That holding would have negated the numerous earlier cases in which the Court recognized an individual Second Amendment right (usually in cases in which the Second Amendment was invoked in order to make a point about something else). And a Supreme Court decision in Quilici would have made it much more difficult for the justices to produce the half-dozen opinions since 1990 which also treat the right to arms as an individual right. (Again, these opinions arise in cases not directly involving the Second Amendment.)

Thanks to Victor Quilici, the Illinois state courts sat on the sidelines while his vanity litigation proceeded in federal court. Not until 1984 did a Morton Grove case reach the Illinois supreme Ccourt. There, in Kalodimos v. Village of Morton Grove, the handgun ban was upheld in a 4-3 decision. Richard Gardiner, who was a NRA in-house attorney in the Morton Grove cases, believes that the Illinois result might have been different if the state case had gone first. The federal case generated enormous publicity — even the cert. denial was a major national news story. The federal case also generated two opinions (federal district court and federal appellate court) ruling that the Illinois constitution allowed handgun bans.

Gardiner suggests that the if Illinois supreme court had been hearing the handgun ban issue de novo, there would have been at least one additional judge with the nerve to vote against the handgun ban. But the fact is, it's one thing for a state judge to vote that a city council has violated the constitution; it's another thing for a state judge to vote that two federal courts, including the federal courts of appeals in his state, are wrong on a matter of constitutional law — especially in a highly publicized case, in which the public already thinks that the issue has been settled by the federal rulings.

The gun prohibition advocates could not have gotten the Morton Grove case into federal court first. That disaster was only possible because of a "pro-gun" lawyer who ended up being a great blessing to the gun prohibition lobby.

In a bizarre final twist, a Quilici case made one more appearance in the Seventh Circuit. The Second Amendment Foundation newsletter, The Weekly Bullet, reporting on the oral argument in the Seventh Circuit, called Quilici's presentation "rambling and often pointless." Although SAF later published an article claiming full faith in Mr. Quilici, he sued SAF for $15 million dollars for libel. His case was dismissed by the trial court, and the Seventh Circuit affirmed, explaining that The Weekly Bullet's comments were obviously a matter of opinion, and not libelous. Quilici v. Second Amendment Foundation, 769 F.2d 414 (7th Cir., 1985).

Robert Cottrol, a professor of law and history at George Washington University, is author of several law review articles on the Second Amendment, editor of the three-volume book Gun Control and the Constitution, and coauthor of the new book Brown versus Board of Education: Caste, Culture, and the Constitution. He strongly supports the Second Amendment as a fundamental human right, particularly for racial minorities who are persecuted by racist government, or who are denied effective police protection. Cottrol argues that the pro-right model for gun-rights litigation "should be the NAACP(s highly successful litigation strategy in Brown v. Board of Education. The NAACP took the time to:

1) raise the legal foundation by bringing the appropriate case; 2) get the precise circumstances and plaintiffs to get best posture before the court; and 3) wait until they had the right court."
Cottrol explains that Thurgood Marshall, the NAACP's lead counsel, used the group's influence to prevent plaintiffs from bringing risky or poorly postured anti-segregation lawsuits. Marshall personally felt that many of the plaintiffs had legitimate grievances. But Marshall knew that the courts would likely rule against these plaintiffs, and that the pro-segregation decisions would make it much harder to win cases in the future.

So for, example, the first challenges to school segregation focused on cases in which the state was not even obeying the "separate but equal" standard of Plessy v. Ferguson, and in which the emotional impact of the case was low, from the segregationist viewpoint.

In 1938, the NAACP successfully challenged Missouri's whites-only policy for the state law school. There being only a single state law school in the entire state, at the University of Missouri, the Missouri government could not defend the whites-only school as compatible with separate-but-equal. The Court ruled that segregation was not illegal; rather, the state was required to provide blacks with a "substantially" equal law school, and if not, blacks had to be admitted to the whites-only law school. Missouri ex rel. Gaines v. Canada, 305 U.S. 337 (1938).

At the time, almost all law students were male. And the prospect of black male law students sitting in the same classroom as white male law students was a lot less threatening to most pro-segregation whites than was the prospect of a black male 8th grader sitting in a desk next to a white female eighth grader.

The NAACP legal strategy moved forward methodically and successfully. Wins in the easier cases were then used as a foundation for winning the more-difficult cases. In 1950, the NAACP won cases holding that Oklahoma's law school, which admitted blacks, could not even segregate the dining hall. McLaurin v. Oklahoma State Regents for Higher Education, 339 U.S. 637 (1950). The Court also ruled that even if facilities such as the law library in Texas' black-only law school were equal to those in the white schools, black law students were denied equal protection because they could not meet white students and make professional connections with them. Sweatt v. Painter, 339 U.S. 629(1950).

The 1950 Texas decision was contrary to the 1938 Missouri case, which had affirmed that segregated law-school education was constitutional. The Texas and Oklahoma cases, based on the principle that segregation was a harm in itself, paved the way for Brown v. Board of Education, 347 U.S. 483 (1954). Notably, the 1950 law school cases raised the segregation-is-harm issue in a context in which it was easy for judges to see how segregation was harmful, because judges (being experienced lawyers), understand how important law school connections are to a young lawyer's career.

Tomorrow, we'll take a look at the Second Amendment case which is being litigated contrary to the successful strategy used by the NAACP, and which may devastate Second Amendment rights: Silveira v. Lockyer.

— Dave Kopel is co-author of Supreme Court Gun Cases.
 
I disagree with Mr. Kopel’s position.

Mr. Kopel wants the perfect case. It does not, and has never, existed. Marshall spent a great deal of time identifying and amassing arguments to counter the defects in ‘Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka‘.

Mr. Kopel wants the perfect Court to hear it. It does not, and has never, existed. While the published opinion was unanimous, I would be surprised were there not very cogent arguments in chambers to uphold the lower Courts.

Mr. Kopel’s example of Brown as the perfect case is inaccurate. All that can be said is that it was the best case available at the time. And with the Senate unable or unwilling to perform it’s Constitutionally mandated duties, I expect the Supreme Court to move further left when vacancies occur.

Is Silveira the best case at the time in front of the best Court at the time? I don’t know. But, doing nothing is the worst decision that can be made. From everything I have read on decision making even the wrong decision is better than doing nothing.

If the Second Amendment is judged to be an individual right, gun owners will have the legal protection as put forth in the Constitution. And residents of those States without specific arms protections will have the protection of the federal Constitution.

If the Second Amendment is judged to be a State right, then all those states with individual arms protections in their Constitutions will have their Constitutions invalidated. I don’t think the Supreme Court, in it’s present makeup, would go that far.

If no case is brought, the status-quo will be preserved, which pleases no one, on either side. That scheme didn’t work in terms of slavery prior to the Civil War and won’t work in this instance.
 
Friz,

If it's about law or politics, it belongs in the Legal & Political forum. Moving it there now.

pax
 
Kopel seems to just have sour-grapes over this because his name isnt on the front. He's waiting for that perfect case that involves someone that never did anything wrong as a kid (including not spitting on the side-walk, never getting detention, never squirming during church and never talking back to his/her parents) who tries to purchase some traditional hunting gun that no one finds offensive (such as a lever action .30-30 or T/C Contender) but is unable to do it due to the law of the land.

But, by the time someone will have a problem purchasing such a gun, we've already lost.

Kharn
 
I tend to agree that Silveira is a lousy case. And for all I know, the NRA does have some grand strategy which if followed will lead us to the promised land.

The problem is that the NRA didn't lay out this grand strategy, and try to persuade gun owners to sign onto it. They just demanded that we jump, and were outraged not to be asked how high.

Well, I don't trust the NRA enough to assume that it's got my best interests at heart. I've been lied to, too many times, when they sought to manupulate us members into doing things they didn't figure we could be honestly persuaded to do. To give just one example, during the '96 campaign, when the told us Dole was pro-gun, and lied about the role he'd played in getting the '94 ban passed.

These days, the NRA wants me to go along with their plans, they've got to lay out the reasons, and respond to the criticisms. 'Cause I'm no conscript, who has to obey orders or be shot. I'm a volunteer, and I don't obey leaders I know I can't trust. And I know I can't trust LaPierre and company.
 
While Gorski was/is certainly not the ideal attorney for this case (and, yes, he did make certain stupid mistakes that even a 3rd year law student shouldn't have made), and while I have a great deal of admiration for David Kopel, I find certain faults in his argument.

First, I have a big problem with attacking a gun law or regulation on the basis of "vagueness." What happens if you win? Very simple: the (still) anti-gun legislature of State X (it is Kali this time around, but could just as easily be NJ, IL, etc. the next) will then decide to write a much tighter and clearer law in the next session, and the (still) anti-gun governor will sign it. Thus, all of the time, effort and money spent saying that the old legislation is too vague will be wasted. Further, other state or Congressional scum (sorry for the oxymoron) like Schumer contemplating similar legislation will take note of the vagueness issue, and write much tighter laws that CAN'T be challenged on this basis. The argument is of very limited use. Frankly, the only way that this issue will be resolved will be for the USSC to make a ruling on whether there is an individual right protected by the 2nd Amendment, or not. If not, then you might as well toss the 1st, 4th, 9th and 10th Amendments - because the same exact argument can be made for reading a "collective right" into those amendments, which were just as plainly intended to protect individual rights as the 2nd.

Second, Judge Reinhardt's opinion in this case is remarkable not for its conclusion, but for its length and the tortured legal "reasoning" used to deny an individual right. Kopel is correct - it is a reaction to Emerson. However, it is just as plainly dead wrong - one of the dissents plainly pointed out what I stated above, that such tortured logic can and will be used in the future to invalidate the individual rights that are clearly protected by other, more politically correct, portions of the BOR. It is on this basis that I would expect the USSC to state that the 2nd protects an individual right - because they have to, or a revolution will ensue within a decade or two as ever more restrictive laws are passed limiting ALL rights that we now take for granted.

Third, I think that Kopel, et al had a marvelous opportunity to join with Gorski and fight DIRECTLY for the 2nd, but didn't do so because he stole their thunder. They had, but refused to take advantage of, an opportunity to submit an Amicus Brief to the USSC. They could have thereby provided a well-reasoned, well-written, properly-spelled series of arguments that the USSC could have hung its collective hat on to rule in favor of the 2nd - but they didn't do so. Why?

I also hate to say it, but it seems like we are headed down this road anyway, so I WILL say it: So what if the USSC rules against the 2nd? The Fedgov and many states already act as if the thing never existed, and the Court has already (with the U of Michigan cases this past summer) basically said that IT will manipulate the plain language of the Constitution and our laws to fit the mood of the moment of 5 black-robed, corruptible and fallible human beings - so why bother? I'm no prophet, and I certainly pray that I am wrong, but it seems to me that the Republic is dead, preserved in name only as a fig leaf to serve the interests of those who benefit from its demise. Sooner or later "they" will come for our guns - ALL of them - and then the reason for the 2nd Amendment will be clear to all. Again, I pray that I'm wrong, but that's how I see it.
 
The Silveira case and the Supreme Court - recipe for disaster!

Bad strategy, poorly executed will once again harm the pro-gun cause. Lord, save us from ego-enhanced lawyers out of nowhere.

Second Amendment scholar David Kopel makes the point:
Silveira and cases like it are worse than playing Russian Roulette with our freedoms, and the freedoms of our heirs. With Russian roulette, the odds of not getting harmed are 5/6. The odds are much worse in Silveira, with the only question being the type of self-inflicted damage.

Read and weep: http://www.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopel200309230925.asp
 
I couldn't care less what the Supreme Court has to say about my inalienable right to keep and bear arms. Seriously.
 
OK.

First, I am on friendly terms with ALL the parties involved...Chuck, David, Gary, etc. I don't like that this squabble broke out.

With that in mind, let me make a few comments:

* David Kopel is 100% correct about the Morton Grove story. I've heard that tale from other sources.

* He's also not too far off on the intial Silveira pleading, although
I do disagree with Kopel on some elements of the later USSC cert brief analysis. One major point Kopel views ripping up Cruikshank as "unnecessary". Errr...sorry, I'm having a hard time with that. Cruikshank is, in my opinion, the single most racist USSC decision *ever*, worse than Dred Scott, and Cruikshank is one of the cornerstones of all US gun control case law. My sole concern (and a minor one at that) with the Lucas-influenced final brief was that they didn't spend ENOUGH time on Cruikshank.

* I also don't think Judge Reinhardt's "scholarship" in his Silveira decision is going to be quite as widely cited as Kopel thinks. It's an utter mess...I mean seriously beyond belief. See also:

http://www.americanminutemen.org/reinhardt.htm

Reinhardt was basically forced to scrap the entire prior theories behind the RKBA being "collective", and build up a new edifice from scratch. The new one just stinks :scrutiny:. He deliberately ignored all Fed law regarding who's in a militia from 1792 to present. Then he cited Michael Bellesile's "scholarship" :barf:. And it went downhill from there, I haven't even gotten into the lies. See link above.

* It's now TOO LATE for the kind of critique Kopel has engaged in. This thing is probably headed to the USSC, even the NRA has figured that out and done a very good Amicus. NRO may have a long lead-time, which would explain this pair of articles showing up at this point.

* Finally, I'm not convinced a truly foul USSC decision would make much of a difference at this point. The states that have gone shall-issue aren't going to reverse course. New ones will be added. Like clockwork, a year after each state converts, articles will appear remarking on the big surprise: wow, no mass bloodshed from widespread carry, who'dathunkit? And after that, if a grabber moron like Al Gore gets up on a podium and tries to blame societal violence on guns in THAT state, the sane majority of the crowd will look at each other and go "what the heck is he talkin' about?".

Which is why the grabbers have been fighting shall-issue. Guys, we've achieved a turning-point: Gore's grabberism lost him the election, and since then we've gained FOUR shall-issue states.

It's no longer possible for an uber-grabber to get elected President of the United States.

And THAT means that the court isn't going to get any worse, and will probably get better.

The gays lost a case what, 13 years ago, and then got the USSC to overturn. Worst case, that's what we'll do.

Silveira is therefore NOT an "all the marbles case" as some have described it.

Good luck Gary. You're gonna need it :). But it's not at all hopeless, and win or lose we ain't out of the fight.
 
It's no longer possible for an uber-grabber to get elected President of the United States.

If Bush loses in 2004 we'll have either Hillary, Clark, Dean, Kerry or Lieberman selecting the next -- are you ready for this? -- 3 perhaps 4 SCOTUS judges. Anyone who thinks Bush cannot be beaten (that was me until about 3 weeks ago) simply isn't paying close enough attention.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking that the other side is hopeless.

Lapidator
 
All it takes for an uber-grabber to win the Whitehouse, is for the Republicans to put up a grabber themselves. Issue neutralized, one of them wins, a grabber is in office. That's how we got Clinton twice, after all; Both Republicans he ran against were anti-gun. And it practically happened again in 2000; All we would have needed was for Bush to be just a little more vocal about his anti-gun views, and Gore would have slipped though.

The primaries are where we have to concentrate, IMO. Gotta make sure at least ONE of the parties runs a candidate who's pro-gun.
 
Does either end of the Sociofascist Party even have a pro-gun candidate to run?
 
F4GIB:
Actually, Jim's right.
You posted a link to the second part of a two part article, Jim links to the discussion of the first part of the article (wherein, Graystar gives the link to the second part in his second post to the thread, over two hours before you started this thread).

Kharn
 
I don't support any of these guys right now. (This is my personal opinion here...) Between Ashcroft's weirdness, Patriot, everything else, I see no significant difference between Dean and Bush. *Hillary* and Bush, now that's a different matter...I'll vote for Cthulu before letting Her Majesty back in there to steal MORE furniture :barf:.

The rest of the Dems, at least at first glance, appear to be spread out between Dean's "not half bad if you squint right" and Hillary's "I AM BEELZEBUB, BOW DOWN BEFORE ME!" side of the spectrum.

But, I submit that we're now at a point where Hillary can't win.

Thank GOD.
 
The following, posted by Sam Adams, TFL Alumnus(who isn't) strikes one as most interesting reading. Thank you Sam.

"The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed—where the government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get to make only once. " -- Justice Alex Kozinski, US 9th Circuit Court, 2003

Who knows, but what we might be a whole lot closer than is desirable or comfortable to that point when a "doomsday provision" turns out to be exactly what was needed. One hopes that this is NOT the case, but one wonders.
 
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