3.5 years for pistol in NYC

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I don't understand the legal strategy of the defense lawyer telling the jury that the accused is not a member of the NRA or a gun collector.

So if I am a NRA member or a gun collector, I should know that NYC has a 3.5 year criminal penalty for carrying an unlicensed pistol within city limits?

Based on the facts in the case, I don't think the jury nulified the law based on his lack of knowledge about the NYC law. .....rather ....he had a legal right to carry the gun in the car in another state, he failed to remove the gun when he traveled to NYC but did not intend to use the pistol in a crime.

I'm I missing something or did I live in NYC too long?
 
Gun laws in NYS and NYC are prohibitive. Although I did buy a shotgun in NYC Tuesday and left the store with it the same day, I decided against applying for a pistol permit in NYS (Westchester county) since the application is about 1/2 inch thick and the paper work is usually denied (accidently lost in a circular file).

A few people I know have spent more than one year and hired attorneys to get a home/target only permit. I don't know a single person who has a carry licence.
 
loaded for bear? If that is loaded for bear, then my car is somewhere between an Fully armed Humvee and a M1-Abrams depending on what day you catch me. Especially if I have one of my evil, death bringing, nuclear tipped, AR's with me. And folks wonder why myself and my company avoid that place like the plague.
 
Another question to the membership, if you don't mind:

When a jury opts to nullify a law, does it come up with a simple verdict of "not guilty," or does it state that they have exercised the right of nullification?
 
When a jury opts to nullify a law, does it come up with a simple verdict of "not guilty," or does it state that they have exercised the right of nullification?

A jury just comes up with a not guilty verdict. They make no announcement of nullification. Unless you got to talk with the jury, guessing any reason they found him not guilty is total speculation.

I have no problem with this guy getting off although I think what he did was pretty stupid. There are at least hundreds of cases in NYC a year where the actor did hurt someone or deprive someone of property and got off. This is jury nullification used to maintain the criminal life style of an area not bad work by the police or prosecutor. These I have a problem with.
 
I'm glad the guy didn't go to jail.

His bank account is lighter, I'm sure.

I still can't imagine forgetting my gun is in the glove box for "years". They are either on me, or in a safe (I have a safe in my car for times I have to go into a place, like a post office, that doesn't permit firearms).
 
....I think the NYC prosecutor was foolish for wasting taxpayer money to go after this guy. There was no evidence he was going to commit a violent act.

The presecutor said after the case that we respect the jury verdict. ....Yeh, I suppose so since you can't try him again on the same charges.
 
Quote:
If I lived in Upstate New York, I'd secede from NYC.


Actually, what if we just took all the major anti population cities and made them their own state :p

Just saying.


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NOT a good idea....that would give all these idiot centers 2 senators.....i mean if chicago elects ppl like dalely and NY bloomberg what kind of senators would they elect???
 
ArthurDent said:
I'm thrilled that this young man did not have his life ruined by an unintentional mistake. Clearly, he violated the letter of the law, but appears not to have set out to do wrong.

But this next point puzzles and frightens me. It clearly points out how common sense and the law can be completely different.

Quote from http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan_jury_finds_guilty_who_X818AWxOHgb8rzvXuuIOgP:
Soooo.... an UNloaded gun counts as a loaded gun, under the law??? :banghead:
Click to expand...
Under NY law, having a firearm and the proper ammunition to fire said firearm in the same place at the same time can be considered possession of a "loaded firearm." Doesn't matter if the gun is unloaded, locked, or f***ing field-stripped.
 
Sounds like the guy got really lucky to have several sympathetic jurors in the mix. It could easily have gone the other way. It's a sad day in American history when an otherwise law-abiding citizen has to fight for his freedom for mere possession of a lawfully-acquired handgun.
 
there is no other reason for a jury trial then jury nullification. if it was just a collection of facts the judge could decide. the jury is there as the last stand in the justice system for the righteous person. notice i did not type innocent as by law he was guilty. thankfully this jury saw that and decided that this man not guilty. as far as the defense using the non nra member as an excuse, it seems to me he was trying to prove his client was ignorant or incompetent. so by not being an nra member or a gun nut, he was just to stupid to know he was breaking the law. not guilty by way of stupidity.
 
I suppose ignorance or stupidity could impact a jury verdict but it would not sway me, for example. As I see it, the guy had a right to carry in another state, forgot to remove the gun from the car before driving to NYC and then got busted.

Since there isn't any evidence to suggest his intent was to commit a violent crime, the jury (correctly) nulified the law and found him not guilty.

The DA should reimburse the taxpayers for the public money that was wasted in this prosecution. The arrogence of the prosecution in this situation amazes me - even for NYC.

Our federal, state, and local governments are too big and they should be pruned way back IMO.
 
I was called up for jury duty in upstate NY, and during the last round of selecting jurors (I didn't get picked, I mean, my dad is a lawyer, I was entering the armed services, on track for an engineering degree, and the defendant was facing some kind of drug (possibly weapon) charge.) the judge informed us about jury nullification. Seemed to be a pretty cool judge though.

I think he was the same judge as was on a trial my mother was on the jury for a few years back as well.
 
ArthurDent said:
I'm thrilled that this young man did not have his life ruined by an unintentional mistake. Clearly, he violated the letter of the law, but appears not to have set out to do wrong.

But this next point puzzles and frightens me. It clearly points out how common sense and the law can be completely different.

Quote from http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan_jury_finds_guilty_who_X818AWxOHgb8rzvXuuIOgP:
Soooo.... an UNloaded gun counts as a loaded gun, under the law??? :banghead:
Click to expand...
I think I read on this forum that a loaded magazine, even if in another part of the car, is classified as a loaded weapon in NY.
 
When a jury opts to nullify a law, does it come up with a simple verdict of "not guilty," or does it state that they have exercised the right of nullification?
Click to expand...

It's a simple "not guilty."

Courts have repeatedly denied any "right" to nullify. No jury will be instructed that they may nullify. Mentioning nullification to the jury is grounds for mistrial and probable disbarment. Talking about it at a courthouse will get you hauled out in cuffs. My beloved brethren love to keep the thing a secret. But the fact of the matter is, in criminal trials double jeopardy prevents criminal retrial on the same crimes after the jury's not guilty verdict.

But I'm not sure this was nullification. If the statute had a high culpability threshold such as knowing or intentional, the prosecution may simply have foundered on those rocks.

David Letterman
Click to expand...

Who is of course packing, and has armed bodyguards. One law for me, another for thee. That may be technical respect for the law of Moscow on the Hudson, but it's not showing much respect to fundamental principles of liberty.
 
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Would someone show me the NYC law where it says anything about cupability or knowingly violating the law?

...everyting I have read says the law is clear, "come to NYC with an unlicensed gun and you are guilty" ....no judgement about knowingly violating the law at all; right?....

This was a clear case of jury nulification; he broke the law but we found him inocent anyway.
 
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