3 revolvers malfunction

[Confederate]

With such a low charge of W296 it's probable the primers are to being reseated after the round fires. That is a very low charge with that bullet. Hodgdon lists a minimum charge weight of 15.0gr W296 with a 158gr jacketed bullet.

I agree. Whether it's because of such a low charge or whether it's because you're using the wrong primers (magnum or standard), or whether you're simply not pushing them far enough into the primer well, I don't know. Many new reloaders fail to push the primers fully into place, fearing that too much pressure may ignite it. Take a reloaded round and compare it to a factory round and see if there's a difference.

You don't want under-charged rounds in your revolver as they could cause the rounds to malfunction. And if you're using magnum loads, use magnum primers and seat them aggressively. Just a few thoughts.

 

[zb338]

Master Blaster, you delivered the answer in a nice short, easy to understand concise manner.

Zeke

 

[Jim Watson]

Understand that Lee does no testing, they just reprint data from other sources, sometimes simplifying it. Frex, they do not specify the exact bullet used.

I see that Hodgdon now treats 296 like other powders with a 90% starting load. With a 158 gr XTP, 15.0 gr start, 16.7 maximum. Magnum primers.
Once upon a time, when Winchester handled its own distribution, they only showed a single load at the maximum and said that it was not to be reduced or any component changed from Winchester brand.
Hodgdon used to say to reduce the maximum load of H110 by 3% to start instead of the 10% usual with other powders.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I forgot to mention in my previous post that a magnum primer is highly recommend when loading W296/H110. It's a slow hard to ignite ball powder that is much better when a magnum primer is used.

 

[Jim Watson]

Although 296/H110 is the most cited example of "don't reduce slow burning powder very much", it is not the only one.

A friend locked up a .357 revolver as the OP describes with sub-loads of IMR 4227.
Another guy knocked off about 40% of his usual Magnum load of 2400 for target shooting. There were no mechanical problems... just erratic velocity, poor accuracy, and a fouled gun.

 

[Crowman]

Re-read load data for 296 in the manuals. Charge too light.

 

[ATLDave]

As Jim Watson noted, Lee doesn't have their own data. It's just copy-and-paste from real sources. I love my Lee press and dies and powder measures... and I completely ignore Lee load data.

 

[Walkalong]

For IMR and Hogdon powders their reloading data center online is one good source.

Yep, and here it is. A great place for data.

Jim's right, Winchester used to just list a max load and a "Do Not Reduce" warning.

Hodgdon used to say to reduce the maximum load of H110 by 3% to start instead of the 10% usual with other powders.

I had forgotten about that.

 

[Bayou52]

Concur that the OP is way off base with such a light 296 load. And using SP primers with this powder compounds the problem. There appears to be a confluence of errors:

1. Too light a charge of 296,

2. Use of SP rather than SPM primers with this powder.

Likely result is unburned powder everywhere.

A quality loading manual should be referenced by the OP.

Also, reference the load data on the Hogdgon website:

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com

Bayou52

 

[4v50 Gary]

I'd stop using WD-40 on those revolvers. Use a CLP (Breakfree or other).

 

[CJ8281]

Just a note on IMR 800X (now Hodgdon 800X), most newer manuals don't list it much. Older manuals listed it more. In my Speer #11 it lists a start charge of 5.0 grains and a max of 5.6 so I don't think 4.8 grains is too out of line. My Speer #13 doesn't list 800X. Then again, my Speer #11 only lists one load with IMR 700X (148 HBWC) but my #13 lists 700X for most bullets in the 38 spl section. I have heard that 800X is quite bulky and hard to meter using some powder dispensers. I have no personal experience using it but have talked to others that have used it in the past. These same people told me that 700X is similar but easier to use (meters more consistently) with powder dispensers. It behaved exactly as they said. I have used 700X and liked how it worked so I purchased an 8 pound keg of it.
Lee's manual has been revised quite a few times. I recently saw one in the store that stated that it was revised for 2016 with new loads and powders.
I will repeat what someone else has said, have a couple of manuals and check between them. I like having a manual for each major brand of bullets that I shoot.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Even though once you get them loaded 700x and 800x are good performers they meter terribly, 800x more than the much faster 700x. Both are primarily shotgun powders and 800x meters like cornflakes so I don't use either. Unless you use 800x up near the top of the pressure range it's dirty too. There are just too many better choices available to deal with those two powders IMO.

 

[GRIZ22]

Thank everyone for great info. I need to add some clarification here 1. RNFP is commercial hard cast 2. Primers seat with Lee hand priming tool.3. After the freeze up the cylinder,trigger, and hammer will not move after I took the rounds out. 4. I did not reload data from some guy off the Internet , I use Lee reloading manual 2nd edition. 5. Lee manual did not list starting loaf for W296,it only list do not exceed 14.5 grains that why I choose 10.7 grains (0.7 yellow dipper). 6 . My revolvers are not full Of crud, I cleaned and lubed them regularly. So it seem that W296 operates at maximum charge, I just thought it was safer to start at low end.

You need magnum primers using 296.

There's another issue to keep in mind when using light charges of slower powder. That's Secondary Explosion Effect (SEE ). Light charges of slow powder can cause excessive pressure. This has been duplicated in laboratories.
I use 296 with magnum primers and 158 great bullets with no problems.

 

[Dog Soldier]

Is there crud under the extractor star?

.
^^^^^^^^^^^^
With your light low pressure loads you have a blow back of unburned powder. Clean under the ejector plate and cylinder face.

 

[thomas15]

The primers are backing out and dragging on the recoil shield, due to the low pressure rounds you are loading. You are probably at risk of sticking a bullet in the barrel with that load. The powder you are using needs a higher charge weight for a starting load as others have mentioned.

I have a question. I know many shooters load soft shooting light target rounds using fast powders such as Bullseye, TG or N320 and so forth. Is there a way to use slower powders such as CFE Pistol, Auto-comp, Power Pistol or AA#5 way recommended start charges without having the negatives under discussion? To be honest I really don't know much about some of the magnum powders being discussed here.

I see there is a bit of space between those powders and W296 on the burn chart.

I have picked up range brass from unknown origin and have found brass with primers above flush but I assume they were fired from auto loaders since that is what most shoot.

 

[gotboostvr]

The faster powders burn more completely and act more predictably at those charge levels than the slower powders.

IMR4227 is filthy at lower charge levels, with erratic pressures and velocities. But the faster powders quickly develop dangerous amounts of pressure quickly when loading true magnums. VERY few powders will do even passably at both much less excel. Unique will do all but the lightest and heaviest and is very popular because of it despite how poorly it meters.

I prefer to have two separate powders for specials and magnums. I use bullseye and IMR4227 mostly. I do use 2400, and recently picked up some power pistol. But it's mostly bullseye and IMR4227. I've used unique in the past as well as reddot, 296 and a few others, but those two are a staple for me.