30-06/165gr GMX vs 270 130gr Barnes Triple X on 1/2 steel

[blackops]

This was interesting to me. The plate was 1/2 inch steel. The two bottom left bullets are my fathers 270 with federal premium 130 gr barnes triple x loads. The top right are my hand loads with 165gr Hornady GMX out of my 30-06. His bullets obviously held together with a circumference of 5/8. It appears my bullet nearly fell apart, but have a 3/4 circumference. Both of us shot from 275 yds and neither penetrated completely through. The 270 they both penetrated aroundd 1/8, with the 270 getting the better half of the two. Just sharing for others to learn and take something from. What are your thoughts on the results?

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[gamestalker]

I have an addiction to shooting steel with my high powered rifles and my reloads. It started years ago with a .270. I loaded 130 gr. Speer BT with a listed compressed charge of IMR-4350. at 7000' elevation those loads were producing a M.V. of 3250-ish fps. at 200 yds. they would blow through a 1/2" piece of steel plate leaving behind a .50" hole. A friend of mine was impressed but insisted his factory 150 gr. rounds would easily do the same thing. He was quite disapponited to see they would do little more than leave a large crater half way through the plate.
My most recent steel attraction has been with my 7mm rem. mag. loads using 120 gr. anythings, Sierra, Hornady or what ever. At 200 yds. they blow right through. I've always wanted to know what is coming out the other side so I put a 5 gal. container water, the type restaurants get their fryer oil in to see if I could capture the left over frags in the container and was shocked to discover what actually happens. The container had a very large hole on the entry side with a split on the opposit side. In the water was a 1/2" half moon piece of solid steel that weighted 23 grains more than the original 120 gr. bullet, all steel not lead. I couldn't find any lead in the water and no lead at all in the steel plug. I used a tourch and heated the steel plug that came out until it was glowing red, and not one single drop or frag of lead was present. I couldn't even find any copper jacket frags. So I surmised that it is shear pure energy that punches the hole, and the lead and copper jacket probably just vaporizes cause there is no sign of them. I guess it works kind of like a plasma cutter cause the hole looks simular, well you know, it looks just like your piece of steel, except through and through. Those 7 mag. loads are leaving the barrel @ 3500 fps +/- 30 fps.
I tried the same ting with a 100 gr. HP pushing 3700 fps and it wouldn't quite make it through. It did leave a cool looking crater though.
A word of caution though. My neighbor's Son was killed doing the same thing we do using a 30-06 and 165 gr. bullet. His load wasn't producing enough velocity to get through and resulted in steel coming stright back killing him instantly. he was no more than 50 yds. from the plate too. So shooting at long range and using the highest velocity round possible, is probably a must if were going to play around like this.

 

[blackops]

I shoot from 200yds or over and my targets have a swivel to swing and absorb the energy.

 

[Dr.Rob]

I'm thinking I hope that was YOUR steel.

 

[bobnob]

The 30-06 round looks like it would cause a bigger and more devastating wound while the 270 round used looks like it would be better for a raking or rear end shot with more penetration.

 

[68wj]

Well, if I am hunting steel, I may prefer to use a .270 then.

For anyone who hasn't already seen it, this is highspeed footage of several different bullet strikes. http://youtu.be/QfDoQwIAaXg

 

[blackops]

The steel was mine of course.

My main question here is what (in everyone's opinion) would be the best for hunting?

I mean shouldn't the GMX of held together better?

 

[R.W.Dale]

High powered rifle penetration in mild steel is almost purely a function of impact velocity. Your "results" are telling you nothing about the bullets in question performance on game

I've seen lightweight varmint HP bullets from a 22-250 clear more steel than FMJ 5.56 with a penetrator


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[WTBguns10kOK]

These types of bullets need high speed for best results, so it makes sense the thinner and faster .270 pushed farther. Results don't mean much tho; either caliber with either bullet is a great mix of reliable controlled expansion with tons of penetration. They shine best by allowing smaller calibers to do things they couldn't do before.

 

[blackops]

What about the results referring to diameter? Still means nothing? The verdict is obvious in this case.

 

[R.W.Dale]

What about the results referring to diameter? Still means nothing? The verdict is obvious in this case.

Means nothing.

Neither bullet "held together" ad you put it since it's obvious that since the steel was cratered and not penetrated that both bullets were completely destroyed as their KE was transformed from velocity and mass to heat, that heat is what CUTS the craters you see in steel.

Which again tells you absolutely NOTHING about what either bullet will do in living flesh.


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[Art Eatman]

Between me and my father, I know that 150-grain 30-caliber bullets kill whitetail bucks in the 350-500 yard range. Hornady Spire Point, Remington Bronze Points and Sierra Game Kings (both boat-tail and flat-base). That's why I quit worrying about it. Thinking hurts my brain.

 

[nathan]

Both are awesome rounds for deer and every medium game in North America.
Its where you put the round that really counts.

 

[blackops]

At the end of the day my conclusion is dang near any bullets can do the job if you make a decent shot.

It's difficult for me not to disagree with some opinions here regarding that this experiment offers no real information to how either bullet will perform on flesh.

I'm going to go ahead and take it that no matter what I'm shooting at, the barnes is going to hold together more and the GMX is going to offer more expansion.

I'm going to have to agree to disagree, unless some more information is brought forward to alter my opinion.

 

[33rowdy]

Shoot a block of Ice. Or Jello.

 

[35 Whelen]

blackops....either bullet is going to sail completely through any deer that inhabits this planet. You're splitting hairs and complicating a very simple matter.

The two bullets you're using are by design very deep penetrating bullets. In fact personally, I don't waste my money using bullets such as the TSX on deer. Like Art said, most any .30 caliber 150 gr. (or .277 caliber 130 gr.) bullet will work.

Having shot a fair amount of steel targets, I totally agree with those who say it's a factor of velocity. I've shot all sorts of metal objects with my 220 Swift and bullets running from 3800 to 4000+ fps at the muzzle. At 100 yds. even a fragile little 45 gr. varmint bullet will penetrate both sides of a piece of 1/4" wall 2 3/8" pipe.

A likely explaination of the difference in penetration between the 270 and the 30-06 is:
1) The 270 with its 130 gr. bullet has a higher muzzle velocity and a higher impact velocity than the .30 GMX bullet. Only about 100 fps, but still....
2) The GMX is a tipped bullet and this tip initiates expansion much more quickly than occurs with a hollow point bullet such as the TSX. In fact hollow point bullets rely largely on the hollow cavity being filled with bodily fluids, blood, etc., to initiate expansion. So the only probably the only expansion from the TSX was when it flattened out as it contacted the steel.

35W

 

[BADUNAME37]

I think the OP meant the bullet DIAMETER, not CIRCUMFERENCE.

Anyway, as others stated, these results show nothing about how these bullets will act in flesh and bone.

 

[Redbearded1]

Very interesting thread. I was planning on testing out the GMX from my 06 this weekend vs some hornady 165 grain sst's. 180 grain federals almost punch through. I guess Ill make sure to keep my distance though.

 

[rori]

I have no idea what shooting steel has to do with shooting flesh and blood!!! I once saw a 17 rem shoot clean thru a1/2" T1 steel chicken at 100 yards. I sure wouldn't go deer hunting with a 17. Since you obviously have no experience shooting living critters why don't you just stick with what is manufactured to do the job. OR just use Barnes TSX bullets in whatever caliber you want to shoot and don't worry about it at all. FRJ

 

[Redbearded1]

I have no idea what shooting steel has to do with shooting flesh and blood!!! I once saw a 17 rem shoot clean thru a1/2" T1 steel chicken at 100 yards. I sure wouldn't go deer hunting with a 17. Since you obviously have no experience shooting living critters why don't you just stick with what is manufactured to do the job. OR just use Barnes TSX bullets in whatever caliber you want to shoot and don't worry about it at all. FRJ

Steel is not the same as flesh, but something that will punch through steel is interesting when looking for something to smash through bone, such as breaking down the front shoulder of a bear. Not the same thing, sure, but still interesting.