.30-06 Bullet expansion for hunting deer

[Morrey]

I have a new Cooper rifle that guarantees .5 MOA accuracy and had a test target included with my manual. I called Cooper to get the load they used to get this same hole accuracy in my particular gun.

They used IMR 4064 powder with a Sierra SPBT bullet in my gun for evaluation. When I looked up the load they gave me, it is relatively slow moving at around 2500 fps. So now I know this is their accuracy load for my particular gun, but how will the slower velocity do for hunting?

If I am only pushing this projectile at 2500 fps, how will my expansion work out to 200 yard shots (or less) on whitetails? Is this load hot enough to get the job done?

My guess is that if I increase the powder toward the faster side, my groups will increase in size. Not sure w/o testing, but is 2500 fps enough for hunting?

 

[Gadawg88]

This may help you.

https://www.sierrabullets.com/store/product.cfm/sn/2145/308-dia-165-gr-SBT

 

[Grumulkin]

I have a new Cooper rifle that guarantees .5 MOA accuracy and had a test target included with my manual. I called Cooper to get the load they used to get this same hole accuracy in my particular gun.

They used IMR 4064 powder with a Sierra SPBT bullet in my gun for evaluation. When I looked up the load they gave me, it is relatively slow moving at around 2500 fps. So now I know this is their accuracy load for my particular gun, but how will the slower velocity do for hunting?

If I am only pushing this projectile at 2500 fps, how will my expansion work out to 200 yard shots (or less) on whitetails? Is this load hot enough to get the job done?

My guess is that if I increase the powder toward the faster side, my groups will increase in size. Not sure w/o testing, but is 2500 fps enough for hunting?

1. You don't mention bullet weight so it's impossible to say whether it is a "slow" load.

2. Don't be too quick to assume the if the bullet was going faster accuracy would be worse.

3. Say a bullet was leaving your gun at 2,850 fps. How fast would it be going at 400 yards? It would probably be going as fast or maybe slower than your bullet is at 200 yards. I have a gun that shoots 200 grain Accubonds that fast and it swatted down a Gemsbok at 400 yards with no problem. I wouldn't agonize about your bullet expansion or velocity very much.

 

[Swampman]

Just because the rifle maker has a pet load that they test accuracy with, doesn't mean it's the only load the rifle will shoot accurately.

It's not uncommon for IMR 4064 to shoot its most accurate loads well below max charges. IMR 4350 on the other hand, seems to do it's best at max or near max pressure levels, at least in my experience.

Just pick a bullet that's sensible for the hunting you do, then work up a load for your rifle using a suitable powder.

Just remember that there's nothing about typical deer hunting that requires half moa accuracy.

Even if you have a load that shoots quarter moa off a bench and bags on a sunny, windless day doesn't mean squat when you're trying to shoot a deer in freezing drizzle with gusting winds and your soaking wet hat for a rifle rest.

 

[Sunray]

What bullet weight? What barrel length? It's twist? What's the actual load?
2500 FPS MV is a below minimum load for a jacketed 150 with IMR4064 according to Hodgdon. A 180, however, has slowed to about that at 200. There is no load that gives 2500FPS MV using IMR4064.
You really need to work up the load yourself and forget what Cooper told you.

 

[judgedelta]

The 165 gr. SPBT will kill any whitetail that lives (or probably ever lived). So will the hollow point version, which is my favorite. I have found both bullets to be accurate enough and reasonably priced. You might want to try that load at 200 yds and if you have a question about expansion at that velocity, call the tech guys at Sierra, they are helpful and knowledgeable.

 

[Gtscotty]

I don't see why you would have to use the specific load they used for your target. Most 30-06 coopers seem to have their targets shot with 168gr SMKs over 4064. All that means to me is that Cooper knows that some variation of that combo will shoot small groups in a wide variety of '06s thereby limiting the time they have to put towards working up a target load for each rifle.

If it were me, I would keep that load in my pocket as a fun range load, and start working up a load for the 165 SBT with one of the 4350s. My rifle shoots that bullet very well at 2920 fps, I bet you would find an accuracy node in the 2,800 - 2,900 range that would be a better hunting load.

 

[Newtosavage]

Deer are not hard to kill. Deer hunting is a game of accuracy, not energy. Sight it in and go hunt.

 

[CraigC]

Just because the rifle maker has a pet load that they test accuracy with, doesn't mean it's the only load the rifle will shoot accurately.

What he said!

 

[Gtscotty]

Deer are not hard to kill. Deer hunting is a game of accuracy, not energy. Sight it in and go hunt.

Finding a good hunting load isn't about finding energy OR accuracy, it's about finding an optimal combination of both. Why buy a 30-06 to shoot 300 Savage level loads? Especially when I guarantee he could find a load that shoots under an inch between 57 and 59 gr of H4350. You don't need better than (or even) MOA accuracy to kill deer, you might as well increase velocity some for flatter trajectory and improved bullet upset.

 

[Newtosavage]

Again, they aren't hard to kill, so the concern about energy and bullet upset to me, is a little unwarranted, provided the round finds the right spot.

Why buy a '06 to shoot 300 Savage-level loads? Because you can, because they are much more pleasant to shoot, because that's still more than enough for a deer, and because if you ever wanted to hunt something bigger than a deer, you still have an '06.

Same reason I'm shooting 300 Savage-level loads in my .308. Because I can and that's still more than enough for a 300-yard shot on a deer.

 

[Morrey]

I really agree with all of the feedback here, and from years of whitetail hunting experience, know that my primary goal is accuracy.

The load they gave me is Sierra Gameking 165 gr SBT and 45 grs 4064 in my gun with a 24" barrel 1 in 10 twist. I KNOW without a doubt this load will give one ragged hole performance. Cooper proved that with this test target. They also suggested a 168 Matchking bullet for benchrest shooting, but I am looking for a hunting load at this point.

So, with all the outside factors considered, will a 165 gr Sierra Gameking travelling at 2500 fps, give me the expansion factor I need to make quick kills considering I do my job shooting accurately?

 

[Morrey]

I don't see why you would have to use the specific load they used for your target. Most 30-06 coopers seem to have their targets shot with 168gr SMKs over 4064. All that means to me is that Cooper knows that some variation of that combo will shoot small groups in a wide variety of '06s thereby limiting the time they have to put towards working up a target load for each rifle.

If it were me, I would keep that load in my pocket as a fun range load, and start working up a load for the 165 SBT with one of the 4350s. My rifle shoots that bullet very well at 2920 fps, I bet you would find an accuracy node in the 2,800 - 2,900 range that would be a better hunting load.

This is premium advice. I only have a few more opportunities to hunt this season so I need to make time count. I can handload a few rounds that I know will work this season (range test of course), then take my time over the spring and summer and really get an optimal load worked out.

 

[Gtscotty]

This is premium advice. I only have a few more opportunities to hunt this season so I need to make time count. I can handload a few rounds that I know will work this season (range test of course), then take my time over the spring and summer and really get an optimal load worked out.

I hear you on the approach of the end of the season, at best, I've got two more weekends to find a cow elk. It sounds like you've got a solid plan, good luck!

 

[splattergun]

At 200 yards there will be plenty of expansion for deer. NOw, at 500 yards, you should be concerned.

 

[Newtosavage]

So, with all the outside factors considered, will a 165 gr Sierra Gameking travelling at 2500 fps, give me the expansion factor I need to make quick kills considering I do my job shooting accurately?

According to the Hornady Ballistics Calculator, that bullet will be traveling approx. 1902 fps at 300 yards, carrying 1326 ft. lbs. of energy. I think that's more than adequate for any deer on earth, and possibly even a small elk.

However, at 400 yards, your velocity is slowing down to the point where expansion may be an issue. You're at 1725 fps. and 1090 ft. lbs. of energy. Still enough IMO for a deer but the question is, where can you hit it at 400 yards?

I don't know about you, but without a really solid rest, 400 is pretty much a crap shoot for me, with 6-8" groups at best. That's a long way to be shooting at a target as small as a deer IMO. Not much room for error there.

I have a self-imposed limit of 300 yards on a deer-sized animal, and that's if I have a decent rest. However you may be a lot better shot than I am, so YMMV.

 

[jmr40]

Most bullets need between 1600-2000 fps at impact to expand. Most are around 1800 fps, but it really depends on the bullet. Look at some ballistics programs and calculate the range where speed drops below 1800 fps and that is your max range with that load.

You don't list a bullet weight, but 2500 fps would be unacceptable even for 180 gr bullets to me. My go-to 30-06 loads are just over 3000 fps for 150's, right at 2900 for 165's and 2800 fps for 180's. I mostly shoot 165's and can keep all bullet weights under 1 MOA. Sometimes close to .5, but .8-1 most of the time.

You may well give up some accuracy, but in the real world the difference between a .5 MOA rifle and a 1 MOA rifle just isn't nearly as important as folks think. If you can keep 3 shots under, or even just over 1" you'll kill stuff a long way off.

According to research done by www.precisionrifleblog.com a rifle that shoots 1 MOA has a 70% chance of hitting a 10" bulls eye at 700 yards. A rifle that shoots .1 MOA does only slightly better at about 81%. A .5 MOA rifle around 78%.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Load a Sierra 180gr game king over 55.0grn IMR4350, sight-in, go hunting.
I've never seen a bolt action '06 that wouldn't handle this load and some that are capable will tack drive with it. My Colt Lt. rifle shoots "bug holes" with this load, I'd bet your Cooper will, too! Ditto, 165grn and 57.0 grn IMR4350, 150grn @59grn.
The 180 will run 2,750 from 24" bbl, 165 to 2,850, 150 to near 3,000.

If you insist on IMR4064 (I've used a lot, but much prefer H4895), start at 50.ogre with 150grn bullets; best is usually 52.0grn for 2,900 fps. Better is 52.5grn RL15.
My Garand load is a 150 over 48.0grn for 2,750 fps. Substitute a Hornady Interlok, and this load is adequate for any reasonable lower48 '06 use. Very, very, accurate!

 

[mac_hunter870]

Sierra 165 SBT Game King

I shoot this bullet from my 1954 H&R M1 Garand and I push it with IMR 4064 (don't quite remember the grains). I've got a Burris 2-7 scout scope mounted forward of the receiver and shooting from a rest on a bench @ 100 yards can chew out the middle 2" area of bulls-eye on paper with 8 rounds. Hunted with it this year and as with just about any bullet if you put it in the right spot it works. Big doe @ 50 yards went bang-flop DRT shot just forward of the near shoulder and exited just aft of off shoulder with an exit hole big enough I could poke my fingers in and feel that the heart was in pieces.

47.5 grains of IMR 4064 for approximately 2750 fps is what I load the 165 Sierra SBT Game King in my M1 Garand

 

[Laphroaig]

When I used to use Sierra 165 HPBT's I downloaded them to that level to minimize meat damage. for me to take a shot at a deer over 200 yds., the conditions would have to be perfect anyway. In all of my years of deer hunting I've found perfect conditions rarely exist.

Laphroaig

 

[Newtosavage]

That's why I wonder if worrying about expansion at long distances is really that much of an issue.

You may well give up some accuracy, but in the real world the difference between a .5 MOA rifle and a 1 MOA rifle just isn't nearly as important as folks think. If you can keep 3 shots under, or even just over 1" you'll kill stuff a long way off.

Say we are at 1 MOA from a bench. Now we're faced with a 400-yard shot in the field in - as was pointed out - always less than perfect conditions (unless of course you're allowed to hunt on your range and a deer conveniently walks out and stops in front of your bench. It could happen). That's 4" groups at best, and then you still have to calculate the distance accurately. If you are off by 30 yards, you're in trouble. If you can't hold better than 2 MOA with whatever rest you have, and you're off by 30 yards, you will miss completely.

I guess this is why I have a self-imposed 300-yard limit for hunting deer. I just don't think I can hold better than 2 MOA off most rests in the field, and judging distance beyond 150-200 yards is really a crap shoot without a good rangefinder and even then it's easy to be wrong in the woods when you're talking about a fur-covered brown animal in a leafy background.

 

[DM~]

I'm trying to figure out why you would need "one hole accuracy" to put a bullet in the kill zone of a deer at 200 yards???

I've made 29 one shot kills in a row, on big game with my Krieghoff Semper, and it won't shoot them all in the same hole!

Load to the velocity you want, with reasonable accuracy and go shoot a deer!

DM

 

[jgh4445]

Call Cooper back and ask at what range they test for that .05 MOA group. Don't be surprised if the guy sheepishly says "Uh....56 yards".

 

[sirgilligan]

Here is what happens when using Hornady Superformance .30-06 150 gr SST estimated at 3080fps.





Clean through, through a rib bone and the spinal column.

If there had been another behind her, I might have got two.

If I remember correctly, we stepped it to be a little over 100 yards.

 

[Morrey]

Call Cooper back and ask at what range they test for that .05 MOA group. Don't be surprised if the guy sheepishly says "Uh....56 yards".

Please correct me if I am wrong, but MOA is a reference of 1" (actually 1.047) at 100 yards. Yes, they may test fire at 50 yards, but then you'd expect the group size to be .25" which doubles to be .5 MOA at the standard reference of 100 yards. Conversely, and as an example, if they shot at 800 yards, 8" groups would still be 1 MOA.

I have never asked Cooper, but many major bullet and gun makers use tunnels or enclosed ranges to eliminate external factors such as humidity, wind, temp extremes...etc. It would make financial sense for an expensive underground or enclosed range to be 50 yards or maybe even 25 yards. From there, they do the math and figure what the groups are at 100 which is the standard measure.