30-06 from 270 brass

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harrygrey382

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This may make a few people wonder why, but I have my reasons. I live in the UK where everything gun related is 3x the price of in the US. A mate has offered to give me a few once fired 270 brass. I need to 30-06 brass to start me off and money is real tight as I'm going for the rifle, dies and bullets all off the sale of my 22WMR. I can't afford to plump for brass right now, so it's the 270 or no shooting for a while. In general 270 brass is cheap and everywhere. No one shoots 30-06 and brass is pretty rare.

SO. I want to form 30-06 from 270 with a 30-06 FL sizer. I know they are very similar. Is the shoulder on a 270 at least as far forward as on a 30-06? Can I do this safely in other words? I know I may end up with thinner necks but even if I get only 2 or 3 reloads that's fine. I will anneal first.

Anyone else any experience of this? I know it's the wrong way around but things a sometimes backwards here...
 
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I've done it quite often. No problems. Just run the 270 brass into the sizer die (the ball expander needs to have a nice taper) and you have it. I saw no problems with accuracy or otherwise, but was not bench rest shooting. Just hunting.
 
The 270 necks are longer than 30-06, so you'll definitely need to trim after sizing. I had made some once and it was surprisingly easy to form them with just the full length sizer and some lube. I got rid of the 30-06 (long story) before loading and using them, so I can't speak on life expectancy.
 
Going from 270 to 30/06: The 270 Winchester case is .041 thousands longer than the 30/06, all of the longer is in the neck, from the head of the case to their shoulder both are the same length. When trimming? The neck will shorten when necked up, when curious measure before and after before trimming, I neck 30/06 to 338/06 and 338/06, in the process of necking up the neck shortens .030 thousands before firing to get once fired cases.

Then there is fire forming as in forming a 30/06 to an Ackley Improved chamber, when fire forming the case shortens again, my 30 Gibbs cases shorten .040 thousands from forming to firing, I must be doing something wrong, others claim their cases 'blow out' when fire forming.



Some claim they move the shoulder forward, others claim the move the shoulder back, I have never figured that one out, my shoulder does not move, when I form and or fire form the shoulder is located at the same place it was before I started, and no I do not purchase my cases from the same place Jack purchased his beans, in the forming process the shoulder is erased, part of the case body becomes part of the shoulder and part of the neck becomes part of the shoulder when the reloader believes they moved the shoulder forward, and the opposite happens when the shoulder is MOVED?? back.



I understand the "I am in Australia" . I am not but I have forming die, the difference between purchasing new cases and purchasing new 30/06 LC MATCH can be .$40.00 a hundred (cheaper), if I can form the case I need from 30/06, I do.



For the 30/06, I prefer the 280 Remington, , the shoulder on the 280 R is ahead of the 30/06 by .051 thousands, meaning when forming 30/06 cases from 280 R there is no such thing as head space, BUT when forming the case the reloader needs to know how much head space the 30/06 has, by adjusting the die a reloader can place the shoulder exactly where it needs to be, after all the reloader has 41 places to stop, I would suggest a gap .005 thousands between the top of the shell holder and bottom of the die to start, with a strong press. Again, I understand you said you have 270 W, you did not say you have 280 R cases.

F. Guffey
 
After expanding you should anneal the brass, expanding from 27 to 30 cal will harden the brass.

In fact, since your brass is already fired, you may have to anneal prior to sizing.

I have split the necks of thrice fired .308 Win brass going to .358... after annealling, no problems.

Take a hour or two and read up on the CORRECT way to anneal - getting the necks cherry red as in some youtube videos will RUIN the brass, making it too soft.

Look for the one by Ammosmith, it more or less shows the method I use.
 
I just did a batch of .300 mag to .338..........comparatively the same issue, longer case & you'll have to trim. Suggest the trim first, then the resize procedure. You ought to be able to easily do it w/ your '06 dies but go slow and use minimal lube to avoid collapsing the shoulders (ask me how I know).
 
The parent case for the .270 Winchester was the .30-03, not the .30-06. Just expand the necks and then trim to the proper length and they'll work just fine.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
kludge - you mean anneal before firing too?

I've read around annealing quite a bit and think I have a good idea. Constant even heat (I'm building a turntable with shellholder) and pulling them off when you can just see a faint glow when the room is darkish. Am I on the right track?
 
New brass will be (should be) annealed at the factory and should go from .270 to .30-06 without a problem. In my wildcat I take new .25 WSSM brass to .35 caliber (no splits so far) and then anneal before the first firing, because the resizing process work hardens the brass (makes it brittle), and I need to get it back to right level of hardness, otherwise the neck might split on the first firing.

Before I started in on necking up my .25 WSSM brass I experiments with some 3x fired .308 WIN brass to validate my annealing process.

Once fired .270 brass will likely be OK going to 30 caliber without annealing first, but from the way it sounds, you can't afford to lose any, so I might just anneal anyway.

Annealing brass is purely temperature/time dependent, so you can't "over anneal" it unless you get it too hot.

I don't work in a darkened room. I'm not an expert, but if it glows it's probably too hot. I'm looking for a light blue color - which I can't see in a darkened room - to reach just past the shoulder then I drop it in the water (to keep the heat from reaching the head).

Brass that gets too hot will lose its "spring". Two things (and probably more) can result: 1) Neck tension on the bullet can be insufficient and 2) after firing the brass can't pull itself away from the chamber wall and now the case is stuck in the chamber - giving you "pressure signs" before it's actually over pressure.
 
Everything about those two cases is adentical except for the mouth size. I run them through the FL die, trim and your ready to shoot them. The 30-06 brass has a little bit shorter neck but when you FL size it, it will come out with a longer neck, pretty close to .270 trim to spec. Just measure it after sizing and trim if it's too long. But so far as the shoulder and other dimensions, they are identical, so is 25-06.
 
WOW...how much would shipping cost from the US to the UK on 100 or so 30-06 cases? I bet I can come up with that many cases to GIVE you if you'll pay the freight. Maybe check the USPS website for rates?Their small Flat Rate box will ship anywhere in the US for about $5 and I bet it'll hold 100 30-06 cases.
Maybe someone else here could pony up a few and we could help you out.....?
35W
 
O.K....I did some checking and USPS Small Flat Rate Box shipped to the UK, weighing a maximum of 4 lbs., would cost $13.25 or £8.16. Anyone know how much 100 30-06 cases weigh? Or a Medium Flat Rate Box which could ship up to 20 lbs., would cost $43.23 or £26.65.
Anyone have any 30-06 brass they'd donate to Harry? If not, I can probably scrounge some up at the range over the next few weeks and I think I could come up with a 100 odds and ends around here.
Let me know if you're interested in something like this Harry. I'm not looking to profit in any way, just help out a fellow shooter abroad.
Regards,
35W
 
Unless you have ITAR, or other import/export licensing, it's not a good idea to ship cartridge brass to the UK. There are restrictions on both sides for these products.

Fred
 
Unless you have ITAR, or other import/export licensing, it's not a good idea to ship cartridge brass to the UK. There are restrictions on both sides for these products
Click to expand...

O.K...is this a fact based statement, or just another internet "let's make things as scarey and complicated as possible" statement? Just asking. I've noticed some handloading forums seem to be frequented by hand-wringing, paranoid worry-warts. If it's illegal, fine, end of story...if not, let's move on and try to help this guy. I can't find anything at all on the USPS website that would restrict the shipment of brass, but maybe I missed something.
35W
 
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35 Whelen - that is a very kind offer of yours. I'l love to take it up, and wouldn't mind paying postage if it's only something like $13. Maybe $40 getting a bit much, but I don't think I need 20lbs of brass right now - It'll just be for a bit of load development and then hunting for the freezer! I'd like to pay a bit for your trouble too, so have a look and see what you've got or can find at the range and let me know. Thanks a lot

On the official side - brass is completely un regulated here, anyone can buy own and sell rifle brass. I'm almost certain you are also aloud to ship it out of the USA fine as well. It's actuall bullets (loaded or as components) they get touchy about. It would be good having the right headstamp...
 
After I posted this, it occurred to me that I was given quite a bit of old 30-06 brass. It's tarnished, but there's certainly nothing wrong with it...it'll clean up. I'll look through it and see if I can come up with matching headstamps, etc. I will also see how many will fit in a Small (4 lb.) Flat Rate box.
To your knowledge, are there any restrictions to shipping empty cartridge brass to the UK? I scoured the USPS website and there were none there. I glanced at the ATF site as well and saw nothing.
And finally, I don't want any payment. Sending you some of the brass would put me one sstep closer to having my shop cleaned out!
35W
 
Yep I've got a pretty industrial case tumbler made out of an old gas cylinder. They'll clean up... To my knowledge there are no restrictions on shipping brass. In fact I can go further and say I am certain there aren't. Can't speak for the US though, but am about 90% sure there aren't either. Even so, it might be wise to put something like "empty brass blanks" on the customs label.
Thanks again
Harry
 
Before you start shipping things, you really really need to look at ITAR. Federal Prison ain't no fun.

The governing agency is the Department of State.
 
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