.30-06 subsonic?

[hipoint]

anyone have any experience loading these? How is the noise level out of a non-suppressed rifle?

I have a friend whom I trust to load ammo well (incidentally his name is bubba) haha. The reasoning for this is I have a blueberry farm where the deer are really hurting us badly and nothing I've done has been able to keep them out, even a Bison grade electric fence... I have a depredation permit from the wildlife commission that allows spotlighting, but I don't want to bother my neighbors with a high powered rifle out there and I don't really have enough money to purchase another gun.

I already have a .44 mag marlin levergun that isn't awful as far as noise goes, but wondering if I could get much quieter without losing accuracy by having a subsonic .30-06 round loaded for me. My max range is 150 yards, shouldn't have to take any further than that using the subsonic rounds.

can anyone help with some real world experience here? Preferably someone who has done this or something similar and can give me a perceived noise comparison from a .44 mag levergun as compared to a .30-06 loaded to subsonic levels.

 

[Certaindeaf]

To be honest, I'd download the .44.. say a 240gr lead SWC going about 800-1000. I'd use a faster pistol powder also.. like Red Dot.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I load a cast 190gr gas checked spitzer for 30-06.. 13gr Red Dot (max for this powder) but that's probably not subsonic. Check out the Lyman #49 manual and or go to castboolits.com for help.

 

[T Bran]

I have been working up or would it be down some H4895 loads for my 30/06 using Speer Hotcore 110gr SP's. The load can be reduced 60% from the max listed for your particular bullet according to the Hodgon website.
Shooting the 110's at the minimum was much quieter than I expected but the goal was recoil reduction so I didnt really test for speed or accuracy.
At 150 yards I would definately go way up in bullet weight maybe 180gr and work up a load for accuracy using reduced data for H4895.
Stay safe and good luck with your pest control.

 

[hipoint]

yeah, I'm kinda on the fence about what to use, the .44 mag isn't awful, but I would THINK the .30-06 would have a much better B.C. and therefore might be a little more accurate. Just not sure if it's worth the extra effort or not as far as noise reduction, not to mention burning up the money in ammo to be re-adjusting my scope back and forth for regular ammo and the subsonic stuff.

It would be cool to get a rifle in the .300 whisper, but I can't afford to do all that as the money it would cost would probably be substantial for me.

thanks for the info folks!

 

[Certaindeaf]

Well, I know it can be done easily, you just need the right data. Just be careful (as in all things) that a jacketed slug can stick in the barrel way easier than cast (maybe it's around 750fps.. I don't know) and that some powders for this purpose are perfect.. position insensitive (no filler needed) etc.. like Unique and or Red Dot etc. People have been doing just this forever. Look up -"The Load" reduced rifle- on Google.
It's just that I think the .44 would be more lethal given most all projectiles loaded to this level.

You can do it!

 

[rcmodel]

.44 Mag carbine loaded with a 240 Keith cast SWC and 10.0 Unique.
Or 9.0 Bullseye.

Either one will shoot through a deer without a lot of fuss & bother.

rc

 

[hipoint]

thanks RC... and everyone else. That's what I suspected anyhow, that it would make more sense to just use the .44 and not worry about anything else. it's a little louder than I would like, but it isn't deafening and the neighbors probably won't even notice it. Just trying to not make any enemies here in the neighborhood ;-)

 

[Clark]

The 30-06 has lots of case capacity, and that makes it inefficient and noisy for sub sonic. Here is a pic of a case made with CNC in an effort to reduce case capacity.

For reduced loads, we want to get the peak pressure up, and the expansion ratio up, and the escapement gas pressure down.
So we would like to reduce the case capacity.

 

[Clark]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C9ePB6knG0

Here is a video about how I got 155 gr to go 400 fps with the sound of a BB gun.

This may be hard to understand, but only about a grain of powder can be burned and stay quiet without a suppressor.

So we need to get all the energy we can out of that one grain.

If we took a grain of powder, put it in a 45/70 case and put the bullet in the case mouth, the gun would sound like a BB gun, but the bullet would bounce off wood.

But if we take the same bullet and powder, but seat so deeply that the one grain is compressed, then the gun still sounds like a BB gun, but the bullet will go through an inch of wood. Of course, the bullet strike is very loud.

There is another problem, the long jump to the lands make it inaccurate.

So in the video I have the bullet touching the lands, and the 1 gr acting like it is compressed by the bullet. This make the sound of a BB gun, will kill a 14 or 19 pound raccoon with a single body shot in seconds, and is accurate.

This works so well, and it has only taken me 15 years to get it working right

Another guy who has been working on the same type project for as long, is suggesting I try filling the case with Epoxy and then drill the flash hole. I will try that next. He has designed and got working a colibri 22 semi auto that runs on C02, not recoil.

 

[kingmt]

Is that your only guns? If that is your only rifles then try 8gr of Red Dot or Bullseye & work up or down with a ~110gr varmit bullet until you get your load. If you use a bullet designed for deer at super sonic speed it is going to poke a little tiny hole with not much damage. It will cause a lot of suffering to the deer. A SWC in 44 won't do much better.

 

[rcmodel]

A SWC in 44 won't do much better.

Yet, if you poke one through the boiler room with one, it will leak badly on both sides, and fall down dead within a very short distance.

rc

 

[rsrocket1]

If you don't mind the noise being about on par with a 22 magnum, you can load 10g Unique or Red Dot under a Hornady 100g short jacket #3005. It is supersonic (1468fps) so there will be a crack like a 22LR, but the bullet has a jacket that is only 1/4" long and the rest of the nose is soft exposed lead. Hornady claims very good expansion even at low velocities. I get one to 1-1/2" groups at 100 yards so you should be GTG at 150.

If you really need subsonic, I would recommend as heavy a lead bullet as you can find such as the 200 grain Lee C309-200-R so that it carrys as much momentum/energy as possible to the critter. Drive it with a fairly fast powder such as Bullseye, Red Dot or Unique and get it as close to sonic as possible. Just realize there will be quite a bit of drop at 150 yards with a subsonic bullet.

 

[x_wrench]

have "Bubba" try these on for size from your '06. i am not sure where your scope will need to be adjusted to, but you should be able to get subsonic with these specs anyways. i have used these specs in my 300 win gag, and my 45-70.

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

 

[Certaindeaf]

Will that fence keep a dog in? How many have you shot so far?

 

[rooster59]

These work very well in my 270, 30-06 should be even better.

They are not sub-sonic, but they are much quieter than high-velocity loads. Loads are from Hodgdon,

H4895 reduced loads

Hodgdon's web site, find DATA tab, and look for H4895 REDUCED RIFLE LOADS.

 

[T Bran]

X WRENCH
I've looked over that data before pretty interesting stuff thank you.
On a side note look at the group size chart at the bottom. All I can say is wow my head is still spinning trying to follow those lines. Wish they had used color codes.
T

 

[jaysouth]

Troll the local animal pounds until you can find a couple of Jack Russell terrorists. Feed them as far away from the house as possible to keep them out of the yard. Let them roam at night. I guarantee they will run off any deer coming within a mile of your place.

they will also kill every rabbit, turtle, snake and any other critter in the area. If you have cats, keep them in the house, they taste good to Jack Russells too.

X Wrench, I have been looking at those tables for years. Just focus on the tables and keep your eye on group sizes and check for leading above 1500 fps. I am shooting 231 in the 100 yard target loads, that is those at around 1,000 fps. This is with very soft cast lead bullets. No problems, lots of fun and one pound of powder loads over a thousand rounds. With gas checks, I go to 15 grs. of 2400 for 1,500 fps. Will work well on two hundred yard targets and small game.

Go down the page to the first post on this thread:http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=13425

 

[hipoint]

thanks for the suggestions, I'll get bubba to check those out. maybe get something going here! also, I guess I could set up some milk jugs of water at the ranges I need and see what happens with the .44 mag cowboy loads...

as far as the suggestions for a dog, no thanks... I really dislike stepping in feces or having to clean up another animals feces.

What I'm wanting to do is have something that's a little harder hitting than a .22 mag, but about the same noise level. The .44 mag as stated is pretty good, but having not shot it much I wasn't sure if it would be good enough using the cowboy rounds to make a 125 yard shot and still be better than a .22 mag.

I wish I had some more available money, and I'd just buy something or put a bounty on them and be done with it, but I don't. Right now I have an 8mm mauser, a .45 acp hi-point, a pretty nice .30-06, a couple of shotguns, and the .44 mag levergun.

 

[hipoint]

@ certain deaf... I don't know how many I've shot so far, at least a dozen this year, probably more. Too strict of hunting regulations in this part of the state, coupled with lots of hippies in this area have made way too many deer here.

 

[hipoint]

after re-reading some of these a few times, I'm starting to 'get it' as far as noise production/reduction and different rounds vs. power. It seems like If I can get me O.A.L. so that the bullet is touching the lands, and then reduce case capacity so that I have higher pressure, then I can get more out of the small charge.

Thanks again, and I'll get bubba to check out that table to see what we can't do with the .30-06 just for fun

In the meantime I'll give the ol .44 a whirl on some milk jugs to see what it's capable of at that distance with cowboy loads and if it's not what I'm hoping for I'll just go back to the .22 for now.

thanks again folks!

 

[Certaindeaf]

Bubba'll figure it. I hope. A .44 "cowboy load" will smack down a deer, especially with SWC's and not be loud out of a carbine. Properly done, it should have a trajectory much like a .22 but you won't have to shoot them in the headbone.
Good luck.

 

[kingmt]

Sorry I missed that the 44 was a lever gun.

 

[jaysouth]

Does your permit allow you to hunt at night?

If so, a good Surefire flashlight and a .22 pistol will solve your problem. It's not "sporting" but a substancial number of deer are illegally killed every year with that combination.

Or: put out a salt block and build an archery blind above it.

 

[hipoint]

the permit is unclear about baiting them in, but I don't really have to anyhow...

seriously? a pistol? there's no way I can make a 100+ yard head shot with a pistol, you my friend are much better than I. Yes, the permit does allow spotlighting, that's what the thread is about. In the daytime the neighbors can kiss my butt if they don't like a gun I'm shooting, but at night I don't want to be as obnoxious.

I just sold the .44 mag on this site's trading post, supposed to be meeting a fella in a few hours with it, hopefully then swing through the flea market and pick up a .22 magnum with the money! Those are getting pretty scarce around here, the only one I've found was a rusty p.o.s. with beavertail scope mounts that the shop wanted $200 for, I asked if they would go any lower, he said $175 was it, so I politely declined.

anyhow, I'm going to get bubba to work on some .30-06 loads for me, he just picked up a ruger american in .30-06 so I'm sure he would be interested as well! Just have to get some time to talk to him a bit.