30-06 velocities

[elktrout]

Talk about variances in a rifle. I had it yesterday. I took three loads to the range and chronographed them from my 42 year old Rem 700 30-06. Shooting max loads with Nosler Accubond 165 grain bullets, I got:

2400 fps with H4831
2500 fps with RL-19
2730 fps with IMR4350

Anyone else seeing such wild variances in their 30-06?

 

[GooseGestapo]

Without knowing what brass and primer and charge weight, it's really impossible to say.

I played around with a Remington 742 several years ago. I got 100-150fps lower with it than a MkX Mauser I've had for 40yrs or so. Same exact components. Mauser has/had 24"bbl and 4-groove rifling.
I now have a Colt Lt.Rifle (clone of UltraLightArms Mod24). It has a superlative 24" bbl and it gets right at the load books for most loads, besides being very accurate.

I get ~3,000fps with 57.0gr of RL17 and a Nosler 165gr BallisticTip. With 57.0gr of IMR4350, I get right at 2,850fps.
With the 742, I was using RL19 and a 180gr bullet. It wouldn't break 2,650fps, even with compressed loads. I never saw within 100fps of "book" velocities.

I suspect you aren't using a magnum primer and unless you are in a southern state, the slow powders aren't yeilding the pressures they will at higher temps.

Also, there is a lot of old data out there.
Again; without specific powder charges, it's impossible to speculate on your results.
They are what they are: exactly what you saw, with your component set under the conditions you fired them...
ie: Temp, humidity, elevation, condition of your firearm, and match of components you used, and distances to chronograph, ect. ect. ect....

H4831 and RL19 are really too slow for the .30/06 and 165gr bullets. IMR-4350 has been my powder of choice for many years, but with 165gr and heavier bullets. Less than 165gr, I prefer IMR4064, RL15, and BLC2. IMR3031 has also given me excellent results with the 150gr bullet, though it comes up about 100fps slower than the others... due to higher burn speed.

Besides, I've never seen the published speeds with RL19, except from my .338/06 and 225gr bullets....

Most of my experience with H4831 in the '06 has been with 180gr bullets. At 60.0gr from my ColtLtRifle I get just over 2,800fps. From the MkX, I got 2,755fps.
My favorite 180gr load is 60.0gr of RL22, It got 2,820fps from the MkX and 2,850fps from the Colt. However, the Colt shoots near 1/2moa with 55.0gr of IMR4350 and a Nosler 180gr B.T. for 3-shots, although velocity is about 2,770fps. Good enough for me.....

I suggest you stick with the IMR4350. My MkX prefered 56.5gr with a 165gr Sierra BtHpt "GameKing". At 2,775fps, It would frequently print three touching at 100yds and was absolutely devastating on deer...

p.s. Take a look at the Speer data. They shot their data from a 22"bbl Rem. Mod700. You, with same primers, brass, should see numbers close to what they shot.
Not knowing what/which "max" load data you were using, it's impossible to speculate. However, if you are in Colorada as your tag shows, at 30deg farenheit, w/o magnum primers, the numbers you show aren't that out of line with what I'd expect...

 

[sage5907]

I agree with goose that my powder of choice for the 165 grain hunting bullet is 57 grains of IMR 4350. A powder which gives similar results is to work up to 49.5 grains of IMR 4064 with a magnum primer. The point of impact should be similar at 200 yards and you can let the two loads go head-to-head to see which one your rifle likes the best.

 

[dogrunner]

Used that very same 165/4350 load for years..........I have yet to lose an animal, that HPBT is utterly devastating on deer and I've dropped 300 lb hogs DRT with it

My load is actually 57.5.....half minute of angle with my M/70, right at an inch with my Browning auto.

 

[ball3006]

What loading manual are you using? chris3

 

[jmr40]

Without more data your post doesn't mean very much. What powder charge, barrel length etc.

I load H4350 in my 30-06's and have found it to give me the best combination of speed and accuracy.

60 gr with 150's nets me 2900-3025 depending on which rifle I shoot it in. There is huge differnce between different guns with the same loads even with the same barrel length.

58.5 gr with 165 and get 2900
57 gr gives me 2700 fps with 180's.

Those are not book max loads, but are close. I can get more speed with more powder, but this is where I get the best accuarcy. I wouldn't advise anyone start at these loads. Back off and work up in your rifle to see how they work for you.

 

[elktrout]

My loads came from the Sierra manual. 59 of H4831SC, 57 of IMR4350, and 56 of RL19.

I have alot of rounds through this rifle, and that combined with the 22 inch barrel led me to believe that I would get around 2700-2750 with the loads. Only the IMR loads were in the range of velocities I expected.

Thanks for your replies.

 

[Haxby]

Your results track pretty close to the Speer #13 manual.

 

[Robert101]

I guess I missed the point of the post. Of course different powders produce various velocity. You don't believe the velocity should be the same do you?

 

[elktrout]

According to the Sierra manual I have, the velocities should have been in the 2700 to 2800 range. When I shot the RL19 and saw the chrono showing 2398 and 2400 fps, I was really shocked. And, the H4831 was only 100 fps better. The IMR4350 load was about what I expected.

As I said in the OP, I was curious if others got the same extreme spreads on loads that should be somewhat similar in their delivery of velocities.

 

[H&Hhunter]

What is your barrel length? What barrel length was used for the data in the reloading manual?

 

[elktrout]

H&H:

My Rem 700 has a 22 inch barrel. The Sierra Manual I own (probably one edition back from the current one) used a 26 inch barrel for these loads and got 2800 fps. I figured I would get around 2700 or a little more, especially since I have put quite a few rounds through this gun in the past 42 years.

But still, to get 2400 fps and 2500 fps respectively for two of the loads was a bit of a surprise.

I have some 4895 that I am going to try also. Oddly, my son used this gun 20 years ago for deer in PA. I chronographed some 150 grain loads back then, using 4064 and 4350 and was getting around 2800, when the manuals all said 2900 for those loads. Then, on a whim, I tried W748 and amazingly got 3000 fps for the max load listed in the Hornady manual at that time.

I suspect, given my recent results, that this particular rifle just needs a faster powder for its loads in order to get close to the books.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I also have a 22" .30-06. I get about 50 to 100FPS off of listed max data with a 24" or 26" data. The other thing is that some barrels are slower some are faster. I've seen exact rifles in exact barrel lengths with exact loads vary as much as 200FPs up or down.

When was the last time you de copper fouled your barrel? That can make a difference too.

Generally speaking as a rule of thumb you'll loose 25 FPS per inch of barrel. But that is a real loose estimate as I've seen it vary significantly.

 

[Sav .250]

For my money your "old" Remington is not the blame. If those are "your" reloads, precise is the operative word when making up a round(s).

 

[elktrout]

Sav,

New Winchester cases. Mouths trued up before loading. COL loaded so that the bullet is sitting just off the rifling. Every powder charge scaled and slow trickled in the case. Bullet seated part way and then case spun half turn in the shell holder to seat it the rest of the way. Remington large rifle primer.

Rounds loaded in the rifle one at a time and shot, not fed from the magazine.

I think the methodology is pretty consistent. Thanks for the reminder. I agree that reloading must be precise.

 

[dodge]

With a Sierra 165 gr Gameking spritzer boattail, 59 grs H4831 SC, Federal brasss and a CCI 200 primer I get 2700 fps out of a Savage 110 with a 22" barrel. This will give me 1 to 1/12" groups all day long. Any deer hit with it is dead with in 50 yards but usually DRT.