30-30 ballistics/SD question

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Thank you for posting the link to the picture. That particular bullet was still doing 690 ft/sec as it exited the back of the gelatin block ...

The firearm used there was a Pre-64 Winchester 94. Distance from muzzle to gelatin block was 10ft.

All expanding bullets expand within 3 diameters, so the 30-30 should expand at or before 0.9" penetration depth. Whether "bad guy" or gelatin is target medium, doesn't matter in this case.
 
I'd rather respond to a threat with almost any long gun- even a .22- than almost any pistol. Under stress, I know I'll be more apt to make hits with a rifle, shotgun or carbine than with a handgun. Given that the 30-30 round falls somewhere in the power spectrum between what is used in AK-47s and M14s, I don't see a power problem.


My grand-dad's old M94 has a full magazine even as I write this. It's not a "first line" SD choice, but it's in line WAY before my 1911.
 
I tried out my second run of 20 30-30 220g loads for my 1960s Winchester 94 today. Using 24g of WC844 I was getting very good five round groups at 50 yds. I'm loading these only for HD/camper/kayaking. Its a long bullet and to get it to feed easily 2/3 of it is in the case. Recoil was surprisingly mild. No signs of over pressure. Again, accuracy was very good a 50 yds and for intended use I'll never shoot beyond that.
 
First of all, i agree that i'd rather have a properly loaded 30-30 in my hands than any handgun from 44 mag. on down, to stop anything from a bear on down, at close range.

To those of you thinking that you need a light bullet in a 30-30: You do realize that the closer the target is to the muzzle the FASTER the bullet is at impact. AND the faster a bullet is at impact, the FASTER it expands!

SO, any 30-30 hitting a man at close range with any of the factory ammo, is going to do a lot of damage! More than 99% of ANY of the handguns talked about on this site.

DM
 
To those of you thinking that you need a light bullet in a 30-30: You do realize that the closer the target is to the muzzle the FASTER the bullet is at impact. AND the faster a bullet is at impact, the FASTER it expands!
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Isn't that what is desireable?
 
30-30 mite not be intimidating compared to some of the larger .30 cal rifles, but 1900ish foot pounds of energy (for a 150gr bullet) is no joke! It suffers at longer ranges, but in a home defense situation, what's the longest shot you're likely to need to take?

.44 Mag in a +P+ load will barely break the 1500 foot pound mark, so it's still quite a bit shy of 30-30's muzzle energy. Nobody would question using an AR15 as a HD weapon, and that's about 1300 foot pounds, pretty weak when compared to 30-30.

The downside is over penetration. It's probably going through your target, as are more rifle rounds. I think you could do OK with some of the higher end expanding hunting bullets, they would likely still pass through the thin chunk of flesh that is a human torso, but they would lose a ton of energy in the process.

My XD9 lives in my nightstand, as I'm very comfortable using 9mm +Ps to defend myself, but my 30-30 Marlin is never far away, especially out in the boonies. Never shot a rifle that points like my Marlin, inside of 100 feet I can almost shoot with my eyes closed, and 150 grains of lead is a pretty convincing argument that you ought to stop doing whatever you're up to.
 
lever action rifles point well like fine shotguns. 30-30 works well on deer and some of the old time police kept them in cars or to guard prisoners.
 
"if I were to use a 30-30 at relatively close range (less than 25 yards) against a BG, would the result be as deadly as I assume it would be"....

The analysis:

Put one or more 30-30s in/through a deer that is pumped up on fear induced adrenalin and he/she can run a long way.

Put one or more 30-30s in/through an aggressor that is pumped up on drugs and you will want to run a long way.

A general comparison between the 30-30 and the .44 Mag at close ranges are very comparable. Yet the .44 mag is the big daddy of pistols.

IMHO, the 30-30 is more potent than the .44 Mag, better at longer ranges, generally hold more rounds, is not as handy in close quarters.

As stated above in other posts, lighter, more frangible bullets that expand/exploded should limit over penetration. The old 30-30 ain't nut'in to sneeze at.

Close quarters and I follow the old black powder view, 'bigger is better'. Bigger diameter bullet over little skinny ones. Bigger heavier ones over lighter ones. Bigger charges of black powder over lighter ones.
Converting this to smokeless powder. Bigger diameter bullets don't require velocity to expand, make a bigger wound path. For these purposes, penetration is not a big plus, so bigger heavier is not a plus. Smokeless powder isn't measured just by bulk.

A light, expanding bullet that will give up all of it's energies quickly is preferred. For a deer or other game, penetration comes in to play. For a 110 to 220 pound aggressor, expending all energy as soon as possible is a better option. (Pound a bunch of energy into a vest and the guy behind it will know it.)

I spend a bunch of years as a cop worrying with this subject. Oh, for the record, I like my .45 ACPs and 308s and with double and triple taps, the .223s will do.
 
I think the 125's are just about perfect for an SD situation. A while back I used to converse with a fellow who was a rural deputy. He carried a Marlin with federal 125's and actually shot a BG with them at about 50 yards. He stated that it was pretty much game over immediately. He said they were trading rounds and then he hit him in the upper chest and that was it. He also shot many wounded deer and larger farm animals with similar results. He did state that he had to change out the rounds every month our so because the lead tips would become deformed. I have a few .30-30's and think they are first rate for HD/camping protection.
 
Hmmmm...

Anyone done a gel test with a .30-30 "Cowboy" round? I know that bullet isn't moving very fast, but I am NOT willing to be the "Crash Test Dummy" on the receiving end.
 
"Anyone done a gel test with a .30-30 "Cowboy" round?"

I don't know the actual specs on your 'Cowboy round'. But, I would suspect that the on target energies are going to be greater (by far) than most any hot shot pistols. And just how many round does your lever action hold? Your good for way more than a pistol round's range. The only down side is the actual diameter of the bullet. Big whoop.
 
Interesting.

I have considered using my M94 for HD duty. I have handloaded some 125 grain Sierra JHPFN bullets with 30 grains of H4895. It's not as powerful as a factory round but still explodes water jugs with much more authority than my 9mm. I imagine the effect on a human being would be much more profound also.

It is a rifle though, which means two hands. Doesn't leave much room for a light or a cell phone.
 
if I were to use a 30-30 at relatively close range (less than 25 yards) against a BG, would the result be as deadly as I assume it would be, or would the bullet end up just punching right through him and leave two .30" holes, with a charging attacker still headed my way?
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Bullets for .30-30s are designed for expanding at the relatively low velocities the round produces. I would say that it would be a very devestating considering the close range you mentioned and that it will be at almost muzzle velocity at impact.

You can even get a tacti-cool version from Mossberg. :)
 
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