30-30 question

[_N4Z_]

follow up to Nhsport's suggestion

and crow i shall now eat.

just got back from the range after having hit the barrel with some pro shot copper solvent.

post cruddy blue nasty swabs - survey says....


At 110 yards, Marlin 336W 30/30, with the stock open sights--> 3 shot groups shrank from 6+ inches to 1.75 inches. BAM, the bugger was just dirty. It would seem i have been sorely remiss in my care of this rifle, atleast as far as getting the copper build up out.

I thank Nhsport for this special spoon feeding and will now go sit in the corner with my dunce hat on.

 

[Hikingman]

The used gun stores have lots of 30-30 rifles.

One day, I felt it was time to scratch the itch, and find a decent replacement for a 336CS, sold ten years ago. Times were tough, and it went.

In early '04 - went to Kentucky - because 'tons of guys pawn them after deer season, and don't claim them', that's a quote from the store owner. Bought one!

Checked two stores the first day; bought a std. 'used' 336 model, made in 1971. The Marlin is now over two years old (to me), and she's a very sweet looking 35 year-old, beautiful, preserved bluing, a scope, 'two' noticeable scratches on the wood (big deal, right?), ext. hammer (tab extends right for easy movement) and gold trigger (a fad). Why not get one of these used, side-ejecting, old gems without the new cross-bolt safety? The aim was adding a safety element if dropped with one in the chamber. And, after millions made without the feature, huh!

This only cost me $215 before tax, no transfer fee. BTW, those hunters likely aren't looking for their 2006 deer rifle, yet! Now's your chance!

Vern, thanks for contacting Hornady about the 2007 release date on those bullets...I've got plenty of 150 and 170 speer bullets to handload til then.

 

[Cosmoline]

There is nothing wrong with the thirty thirty except it can be a pain to reload.
The cases are fairly thin and the long neck and gentle shoulder angle can cause the case to collapse if it is not perfectly centered in the reloading dies during the upstroke.

Meh. I've been handloading weird European cartridges for many years now and just started the .30-30. I've been amazed by how astonishingly simple and trouble-free it is The case problems you mention are related to the press, not the cartridge. There is nothing thin about the .30-30 case compared with other cases. You pour 30 or so grains of 3031 in there and drop a FN round on top. There you go. No weird caliber variations, no odd differences in case size from nation to nation. No strangely shallow primer pockets. No Finnish, Russian or Austro-Hungarian instructions to find or read. Plus, the bullets and loaded ammo for the .30-30 have had all their kinks worked out in the past 110 years. That ultra super hyper short magnum's bullet may or may not function. But the .30-30 will work and work extremely well.

I think every new American shooter should have to qualify on a .30-30 levergun WITHOUT A SCOPE before being allowed to buy other firearms.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

I think every new American shooter should have to qualify on a .30-30 levergun WITHOUT A SCOPE before being allowed to buy other firearms.

Roger that.

 

[ScottsGT]

and crow i shall now eat.

just got back from the range after having hit the barrel with some pro shot copper solvent.

post cruddy blue nasty swabs - survey says....


At 110 yards, Marlin 336W 30/30, with the stock open sights--> 3 shot groups shrank from 6+ inches to 1.75 inches. BAM, the bugger was just dirty. It would seem i have been sorely remiss in my care of this rifle, atleast as far as getting the copper build up out.

I thank Nhsport for this special spoon feeding and will now go sit in the corner with my dunce hat on.

Just goes to show, no matter how much experience one has in any field, it's always good to try some new advise sometimes!
You are planning on keeping that .30-30 now, aren't you??

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I think every new American shooter should have to qualify on a .30-30 levergun WITHOUT A SCOPE before being allowed to buy other firearms.

On horseback. At a hand gallop.

 

[JesseL]

If Marlin, Rossi, and whoever resurects Wincheser started chamering rifles for 307 Winchester again, and if Hornady could be convinced to start producing these:

; we might have a viable replacement for the 30-30. Until that day comes 30-30 will continue to have a niche with shooters that want classic rifles in an adequate caliber.

 

[unspellable]

It's not true there is nothing new in this class ...

In the interests of plugging the performance gap between the 30-30 and the 32 Special I am developing a 31-30 wildcat. This chambering promises to be a death ray for everything from prairie dogs at 300 yards to cape buffalo at 3 yards.

Stay tuned for the latest news on this wonderful new round ...

 

[_N4Z_]

maybe

ScottsG said

Just goes to show, no matter how much experience one has in any field, it's always good to try some new advise sometimes!
You are planning on keeping that .30-30 now, aren't you??

Maybe. It is a good thing that the accuracy was still there just hidden under a coating of copper poo.

BUT...

When I cleaned it after this last shoot I noticed the copper fouling was back. Nowhere near as bad but back just the same. I only put 9 rounds thru it at the range.... I find it a bit strange that 9 rounds would deposit enuff that I could see it again in the sunlight inside the business end of the barrel.

Is this a "micro-groove" thing? Are the micro grooves more susceptible to copper fouling from jacketed rounds? They are quite a bit shallower than standard (ballard?) rifling. Anybody have any ideas on this?

 

[Cosmoline]

There's always some copper in the bore. Don't worry about it, it means nothing.

 

[Terrierman]

This brings to light a fairly basic question I've been wondering about too re: copper removal. Cosmoline makes the point there's always copper in the bore, says don't worry about it. And for the most part, I don't worry about it either. But at some point, as illustrated in this thread, coppering of the bore affects accuracy. So some copper removal is needed now and again.

When I clean any of my centerfires and use copper solvent after the normal bore cleaning, I always get the blue patches. It takes A LOT of cleaning cycles to remove all of the copper. And it takes a long time too, due to the soak time for the solvent needed to do it's job (I'm using Bore Tech Copper Remover - seems pretty hot to me - very strong ammonia).

So the question is how often do others clean copper from the bore of their rifles, and do you keep after it until 100% of the copper is gone or do you give it a few good soaks and get the bulk of the copper out and call it good?

 

[Art Eatman]

Back in 1997 I noticed that the groups were opening up on a couple of my pet rifles. Somebody turned me on to the copper-removing bore cleaner and I followed the directions.

Et voila! Tight groups, once again.

The '06 had had well over 3,500 rounds through it before going beyond normal cleaning; the .243 maybe a thousand or so. Both rifles had been used over some 25 years.

My normal cleaning process, mostly WD40 sprayed on a patch plus some occasional wire-brushing, had been adequate for a long time, but the buildup of copper had finally caused the degradation in group size.

I've used the copper-remover stuff a couple of times since then, but I don't get enough blue on the patch to notice.

Maybe the rate of buildup has to do with the smoothness of the bore? Just guessing...

Art

 

[Cosmoline]

I was addressing the bit of copper N4Z noticed. You'll always see a bit of copper, and yes once a lot has built up you'll need to use a potent copper solvent to get it out of there. But the fact that you can still see some copper at the crown doesn't mean there's a defect with your rifle or the bullets. It's the natural effect of squeezing a soft metal through a harder metal tube.

 

[seeker_two]

_N4Z_: You can use my dunce cap. I owned a sporterized SMLE for YEARS that I though was only a 8MOA shooter. After reading Col. Cooper's ART OF THE RIFLE and updating my rifle cleaning kit with new chemicals (esp. Gunslick Foaming Bore Cleaner-- ), I gave that smelly "Smelly" a GOOD cleaning.

At my next range visit, that rifle went from 8MOA to 2MOA--and that's better than I can shoot offhand. Good enough for me...

Easy cleaning instructions: Field strip your rifle so you can clean from the chamber. *Run a bronze brush from the breech to the bore and back several times. Use a cleaning patch or paper towel to plug the bore. Spray Gunslick Foaming Bore Cleaner into the barrel from the breech until the barrel is full. WALK AWAY FROM THE GUN--for at least an hour. When you return, unplug the bore and run cleaning patches from the breech to the bore until they come out clean. Repeat steps from * to here twice more. Clean bolt thoroughly (I use brake cleaner to get all the lube & grime off.) Lightly lube the bolt and reassemble. Take to the range and "get dirty" again...