.308 Brass - What's Wrong with this Picture?

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Don't throw your brass away just because you have a problem. Use a collet type bullet puller such as the ones made by RCBS. Remove the bullets, dump the powder charges, run the cases through the sizing die again to get the shoulder and neck problem corrected. The un-fired primers will come out without a problem. When you get through sizing wash the cases in hot soapy water to make sure every grain of powder has been removed from the case. Rinse in clean water, and after a drying period they can be loaded again. Shooter
 
Greetings

Update: I reset my Lee Die down further and resized the brass again. Still the same result on the feeding ( by the way I have pulled all of bullets from the brass and have reclaimed the bullets and powder )

So I did it again and again, setting my Lee die to different heights in my reloader (Hornady Progressive loader) Still same results. I failed to take a picture of it this time. So I tried another bag of .308 brass that I had. I ran the brass through the Lee Die, no issues there. Then I set a bullet in the new batch of brass and the rounds feed well into the Remington 700 and into my Ruger Scout Rifle. So it seems no matter what I have tried this batch of brass is not working. Maybe when I crimped it before, I really over crimped and distorted the shoulders a lot. It just baffles me and is driving me nuts :cuss: but I cannot continue to beat myself up on this one. Lesson learned about over crimping.

It was mentioned about "reming" the case neck. One measurement I did last night which I thought odd was the fact that before I put a bullet into the brass the neck sizes on both of the rounds were the same, about .337" which I believe is what is should be after going through the re-sizer. But in the brass that will not feed all of the way the neck size after bullet insertion was at .3415" which is about .0045" larger. Could it be that these cartridges are starting to deform? I purchased them from an on-line site and there were advertised as "Once Fired". I have ordered from the company before and never had any issues.


Oh On yet another note, I see the point of the over chamfer, I will definitely reset that. I thought it look like a lot, but I am still learning how to reload .308. Pistols and 5.56 are not so difficult, but these .308 rounds are just kicking me in the butt. !!


I think this weekend if I have time I will try yet again.
 
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308 winchester full length sizing

But in the brass that will not feed all of the way the neck size after bullet insertion was at .3415" which is about .0045" larger.
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Maximum is .3435" you should be ok. Any bulge from crimping will be removed when FL sizing the brass the 2nd time. The problem brass may have expanded to much in the web area. This area is not sized by most FL dies. Small base die will size more. F. Guffey> (smaller). Lee does not make them, but will custom fit your dies to your fired brass if returned. Most problems like this is because the shoulder is not being pushed back far enough on full length sizing. Check measurement of your problem brass against the SAAMI standards. > http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/308%20Winchester.pdf
 
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W.E.T said, If you're not using a case gage to measure your sized cases to set up your sizing die, you're doing it wrong.

+1 to that. Different shell holders of the same brand will give different results when full length sizing. Without the gage you are pretty much clueless.

Discovered this after picking up the wrong shell holder (both shell holders are the same numbered RCBS) and sizing a ton of 5.56 brass. When I finally stopped and checked with the gage I was over the minimum. The amount I was over was less than any of my rifles chambers, but I went ahead and ran that brass through the sizing die again with the correct shell holder.

Not so sure stuff doesn't change even though it is locked down. You don't have to check every case but you need to at least spot check.

Lennie
 
+ 1 Shell plates on a progressive can be different thickness at each station,causing problems. Flex in the sub plate as it sit on the ram or die holders may need shims to remove slop.
 
Just ordered a RCBS small base re-sizing die and also the RCBS PRECISION MIC 308 WIN. I will keep this brass and once I get the new die in I'll give it a try again.

What a journey to reload some .308 and what a lesson learned about "crimping" .308. Yet another lesson learned.


Dan
 
I agree that although not the issue, that is excessive ream and chamfering.

I would bet that you aren't bumping the shoulders back quite enough. Try readjusting the die down in .002" increments until they chamber normal. Be careful not to bump them back more than is necessary to allow for normal chambering or you'll likely experience case neck separations.

GS
 
Or by some means, way, technique or method learn how to measure the length of a case from the head of the case to its shoulder, I have 90 good options between .454” and .343”, yes, I know there are 111 options between .454” and .343 (in thousandths), not all are good options. After acquiring a method and or technique that would allow for measuring the length of the case from the head of the case to its shoulder the reloader should be able to determine the length of the chamber from the bolt face to to the shoulder of the chamber.

I choose to determine the length of the chamber first, again when it comes to determining the length of the chamber it is OK for the gage to be too long when using different methods and or techniques.

Again, an armorer/smith stamped many M1917s at an arsenal in Utah, he checked chamber length from the bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber with a field reject gage, when it came to determining the length of a 30/06 chamber he had 9 options above a go-gage length chamber or 14 when compared to a minimum length/full length sized case. His co-workers blamed him for stretched receivers, they accused him! They did not ask him how he did ‘it’.

F. Guffey
 
"Originally Posted by Dave P
A cheaper tool is the 20$ lyman case gage - great thing to have. Checks for diameters, headspace, and OAL."

CFULLGRAF:

"Shoulder position and overall length, yes. Diameters, no. Rifle case gauges are generally cut generously in the diameter of the body.

Check the manufacturer's description and specifications."
__________________

I agree fully with this. Almost all the case gages have straight-drilled bores--just the case length and headspace at the shoulder are measured. They DO NOT have tapered inner walls like your chamber does. The only ones that I KNOW OF that measure ALL dimensions are the JP case gages from JP Rifles. They are actually cut with chamber reamers, not drilled. I bought mine from Brownells. The downside is they are only available (again, as far as I know) in .223 and .308. They WILL catch all cases that won't chamber. I load thousands of rounds, and each one gets dropped in a JP gage before it goes in the ammo can.
 
“The problem brass may have expanded to much in the web area. This area is not sized by most FL dies. Small base die will size more”

I have small base dies, I have full length sizing dies, etc., etc.. What I do not have is the ability to size more of the case than my shell holders will allow me to size, all my shell holders have a deck height of .125".

It all goes beck to reloading is not fail, other reloaders acquire reloading equipment that is not like my reloading equipment.

F. Guffey
 
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RCBS dies will not arrive for another few days... I have not given up yet on those "bad cartridges" but will try to have another go at them when the new dies arrive.

Regards
Dan
 
If not trimmed to same length, and if the seating die is set up to crimp the shortest cases, often the shoulder will buckle a little bit upon the application of the crimp.
 
djwalker60 said:
Greetings:

I am not too new to reloading .308 Winchester. But recently ran into a little problem. I have a Hornady Progressive reloader and use Lee dies for my .308. I have followed the instructions, I have deprimed, re-sized and chamfered the inside and outside of the brass. But yet on a recent batch of 100 rounds of .308 brass the rounds will NOT fully seat into either my Remington 700 or Ruger ScoutRifle. I am going to try and resize once again by running "down" my resizing down as far as I can to see if that helps. But I took a micrometer and measured. I measured a known good brass and the "bad" brass and measurements are same, well almost. So a picture is worth a thousand words.. Any thoughts as too why this would not load? The brass with the red line is the bad brass that will not feed. I did notice a slight difference in the taper of the neck.. Poor resizing? Could this be the culprit?
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I had this happen to me! I was tired and did not run it in all the way. They was to big at the end. I pulled the primer pin out and rerun them and they worked.
 
Well while waiting on my new RCBS Die, I took my lee die and put it at different heights in the progressive reloader. It appears that this did make a difference. I raised the die up a bit and the brass seems to work a bit better, But the jury is still out. I want to wait until I get that new die in this weekend to try and see what happens. This little problem is driving me nuts.. Why oh Why does it appears that .308 is so much harder than 5.56 / .223 ??
 
Digital Headspace Gauge ....

djwalker60 .......

The case width gauge (shown above) will show if your handloads are somewhere within industry standard specifications. Take a look at the Digital Headspace Gauge. It is designed to show how your handloads will fit in YOUR particular chamber. It can also display how far your bullet jumps to the rifling. Unlike the RCBS Precision Mic . . . . the Digital Headspace Gauge is not limited to any specific caliber.

COAD-06.jpg ​

There several different (and acceptable) methods to set die height correctly. Some techniques are accurate, some are not, and some are just frustrating guesswork.
 
“the Digital Headspace Gauge is not limited to any specific caliber”

The caption does not match the picture, your picture is not a picture of a head space gage, the picture you posted is a picture of a comparator, your comparator post/stand looks weak, my comparators have a post/stand that are 1” in diameter and some cost less than your incorrectly labeled ‘head space gages’.

I am sure your tools are nice, as sure as I am convinced they are nice, I am equally convinced they are not necessary.

F. Guffey
 
Digital Headspace Gauge

fguffey ........

Hornady wisely decided on this name, because although this tool is a comparator, for handloaders, it is esentially a headspace gauge for their particular chamber.

I could have used a 4" diameter post, but I thought it would be a little over-kill. So far, there are almost 2,000 shooters using them. For some reason, nobody that actually owns one has ever mentioned the things that you think up.

I also have a Reloading DVD that shows how this Innovative tool can troubleshoot problems with handloads, as well as measure bullet jump.
 
Well I tried yet again on this load of brass that I guess I really screwed up by over crimping, for that fact crimping at all. I think it's time to trash a 100 rounds of .308 Brass. No idea what to do with them. Cost me about $35.00 for the 100 but I guess it's a lessoned learned on what NOT to do. Any last ideas before I trash?
 
Well I am suppose to get the new RCBS die today. I'll give a few a try over the weekend and see what happens.. very Frustrating when thing go wrong. :banghead: Especially when you think you tried everything.. If this doesn't work.. I give !!
Dan
 
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