308 Help Needed

I had a similar problem with a 30-30 bolt action. Possibly this will help....

My problem was an extra tight chamber. New brass fit just fine. But full length sizing would not size range brass small enough to fit. The brass would stick when the pressure ring tried to enter the chamber.

You can quickly find out if this is the problem, using a Sharpie and looking for places the marker is scraped off.

If this is the problem, let me know and I can suggest a possible solution.
 
Nature Boy said:
Got ya. Thanks :thumbup:

Try this.

Raise the ram, screw your sizing die down till it touches the shell plate, then lower the ram and screw it in about another 1/4 turn. When you raise the ram again you should feel what people refer to as “cam over”. That ensures you’re getting the most out of the stroke to size the base of the case.

When you’re using the case gauge does the brass stick in gauge or does it fall free when you upend it?

The case shoulder is the next bit. Before you buy any more equipment I would suggest your next purchase be a Hornady headspace comparator. That’s how you can know empirically how far you’re bumping your shoulder back when resizing.

A case gauge will get the job done but I like to have the data.
Click to expand...

Got it. I'll give the addtl 1/4 turn a try. Sadly, I'll be traveling and I wont be able to try it for a week. Inside the Dillon Case gauge, the resized brass falls out freely once upended. That said, member ManFromMontana is having the same issue and had the same results with his Dillon case gauge. Above, he mentioned that the same brass doesn't fully insert into the Sheridan case gauge;so I'm guessing the case gauge specs vary. I already ordered the RCBS die and lanoline lube ingredients, but I'm going to wait on ordering anything else until I see if I can get them to work (using the additional 1/4 turn you recommended).

If I still can't get it working, I'll pick up that comparator. appreciate you.
 
jpitt16 said:
Got it. I'll give the addtl 1/4 turn a try. Sadly, I'll be traveling and I wont be able to try it for a week. Inside the Dillon Case gauge, the resized brass falls out freely once upended. That said, member ManFromMontana is having the same issue and had the same results with his Dillon case gauge. Above, he mentioned that the same brass doesn't fully insert into the Sheridan case gauge;so I'm guessing the case gauge specs vary. I already ordered the RCBS die and lanoline lube ingredients, but I'm going to wait on ordering anything else until I see if I can get them to work (using the additional 1/4 turn you recommended).

If I still can't get it working, I'll pick up that comparator. appreciate you.
Click to expand...
Don't try and spend your way to success. Knowledge is and always be the key...
 
Absolutely. In my mind, I am just trying to systematically eliminate the potential causes and dig deeper as necessary.

I’m a sponge, so any knowledge you want to drop on me relative to this, fire away :)
 
Do you have a dial indicator gauge to measure the amount of shoulder bump?

Are you using all same headstamp brass?

Do you chamber gauge you resized brass to insure correct resizing?

Might suggest taking 50 pieces of new brass to obtain precise measurements of headspace and shoulder bump.

I resize .308 on a Redding T7 and then feed the processed brass to the Dillon. Hope this helps
 
I read all your posts and maybe I missed it, but you never specified what "commercial brass" it was that worked perfect the first time before reloading. The reason I ask is that I had some Federal blue box 308 that wouldn't fully chamber every round in my new at the time Remington AR10 clone, but always would slamming the bolt home on the first shot. Your lever gun is on the weak side, slamming one home. In my case it did turn out to be a oversized base/undersized chamber problem. Found that out by painting new cases with black magic marker and looking for shiny areas after chambering attempts. Regular RCBS sizer would not work. Chamber was within Sammi's spec but near the smallest number near the base. Dies sizing in that area was minimum.

Answer was to stay away from Federal Blue box....the cheap stuff. And small base dies also helped near the base. I heard from a Dillon rep answering a forum question, that Dillon rifle dies were All small-based....but obviously there's small-base and small-base......IOW variances between brands.

The lever gun you have has a chamber on the small side obviously.....so find a die that will get it there. Keep in mind that RCBS has you adjust by bottoming the die then turning it down a little more. Easy to do on a single.....harder on a progressive because of tilt of the shell plate. (but critical with these types of oversized base, minimum sized chamber problems.)

Forgot to mention: RCBS 308 sb dies also lower the shoulder a mm or 2 more than their regular dies. Depending on the magic marker test you'll know whether that helps or not.
 
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jpitt16 said:
Above, he mentioned that the same brass doesn't fully insert into the Sheridan case gauge;so I'm guessing the case gauge specs vary.
Click to expand...

No, but the purpose of a case gauge DOES. I have a few Wilson case gauges... what they really are is a go/no-go gauge for OAL, not a minimum spec for a chamber. I put some of my fired 7.62mm brass, from my M1a, into the gauge... and it dropped right in! I'm like... that doesn't make any sense. Then I did some research and finally realized the differences.
 
rdinga said:
I resize .308 on a Redding T7 and then feed the processed brass to the Dillon.
Click to expand...

I actually meant to make that suggestion, too... sizing on a single-stage... at least at first, until the OP gets the brass sizing sorted out... it would eliminate the variances seen on a progressive.
 
You also mentioned sizing effort was excess. I've only had that problem with old hard machine gun 7.62LC brass, and I had a lot, so I did some personal testing on lubricity. In that test the absolute best was STP, but that was so messy, not worth it for me.

Next best was as suggested already, RCBS water-based pad lube. Far less effective in my testing was lanolin (granted homemade) and worst was One Shot.....but I've heard you have to let both dry first.....and I don't remember how long it was allowed to dry.....so test all that yourself.

That said, commercial brass should not be that hard to size.....even in S.B. dies.
 
GW Staar said:
and worst was One Shot.....but I've heard you have to let both dry first.....and I don't remember how long it was allowed to dry.....so test all that yourself.
Click to expand...

Speaking from experience... I let it dry 5 minutes. I've stuck a number of cases because I didn't behave myself with OneShot. Which reminds me...

OP, did you lube your sizer die prior to use? My last sizing session... with .308 brass as a matter of fact... I stuck a case, even after I, literally, hosed the cases down with OneShot. I had cleaned (with degreaser/carb cleaner) the die after the last use, and just coated it with some sort of spray protectant. I forgot to lube the die before I put it back into service this last time. Sizing effort was markedly harder, and then I stuck the case. I swapped dies out (I have a spare for just this instance...) and the 'dirty' die went through the rest of the brass like a hot knife through butter. I am now a 'lube the die before use' convert.

Edit to add: The idea of lubing the sizing die is to eliminate friction in the die... the easier it is to ram the brass up in there, the better the chances of a full-length size... or that's the theory, anyway.
 
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Even with that machine gun brass, I didn't actually stick one.....I tend not to force things. When the going gets tough I stop before the point of no return. And I forgot to mention, that the inside of necks I ended up doing best with the white powdered lube that came with my TrimMate.....just dipping it in the powder a quarter inch.....but that's not useful in a progressive with a case feeder.....so for first sizing of machine gun brass.....I used a single station.....then filled the case feeder with brass pre-sized for what was finally trouble-free progressive loading....

Interesting idea to prelube the sizer.....never attempted that....how many cases would that be good for before you have to remove the sizer and do it again? neck expander too I assume.....especially....unless it's a bushing die.
 
GW Staar said:
Interesting idea to prelube the sizer.....never attempted that....how many cases would that be good for before you have to remove the sizer and do it again? neck expander too I assume.....especially....unless it's a bushing die.
Click to expand...

I don't really know... but it seems like once you lube it, it's fine thereafter. I CAN tell you a dry die stays dry, and a lubed die stays lubed... ;) In my case, it was not being able to see the forest for the trees... the brass was squeaking, and I was leaning on the press handle.... and I guarantee you I had plenty of lube on the cases. Once I swapped dies out... it felt like I was sizing .45ACP brass.
 
I only saw one poster glancingly touching this matter….

Check the case Length!!!

I’ve found that most new brass is at max case length. After the first firing and a trip through the sizer die that they are ALL over length. Especially some Federal Gold Medal Match .308 I was gifted. (160rds!).

I had to trim them .15” to get them to max -.1” as recommended.
I found this out because I was loading them for my REM 700Tactical w20”bull barrel. I kept getting the “bind” you’re describing in original post. Turns out it was the over length cases binding at the throat.
 
I think @Nature Boy has asked the right questions re: shoulder bump and using a comparator.

A new die may fix the issue, and adjusting the die the way he states may well fix it too. If you do not know what the shoulder of your fired brass vs your resized brass is you'll never know what the issue was in the first place. I'd take the advice and get the comparator so you can use it the next time this happens. My guess is you are not pushing the shoulder back (bumping the shoulder) enough for the case to fit in both chambers. Assuming of course your OAL is the same as your first 100 rounds when you used new brass using same bullet.

-Jeff
 
Bartojc said:
I think @Nature Boy has asked the right questions re: shoulder bump and using a comparator.
Click to expand...

Here’s why.

Again, I’m using the same equipment as the OP, a Dillon 650, Dillon Dies and a Dillon case gauge.

Using a comparator to verify, I’m setting up my dies to bump the shoulder back 0.003”. Unsized on top, resized on bottom.

04BDA0E1-A237-4115-997B-A4D2E8B6B07D.jpeg

The same cases will pass both visual and “feel” test on the Dillion go/no go case gauge.

D998B393-1C86-47E7-8A1A-1D11E4AF34EE.jpeg
 
Nature Boy said:
Here’s why.

Again, I’m using the same equipment as the OP, a Dillon 650, Dillon Dies and a Dillon case gauge.

Using a comparator to verify, I’m setting up my dies to bump the shoulder back 0.003”. Unsized on top, resized on bottom.

View attachment 1146679

The same cases will pass both visual and “feel” test on the Dillion go/no go case gauge.

View attachment 1146677
Click to expand...
I use that exact setup for bumping including the iguaging calipers. Digital is good so it's easy to set zero.
 
Solved!

And it wouldn’t have happened without all the suggestions and advice; thank you!!!.



I did 3 things in combination and the problem is now gone. New rounds are chambering and ejecting perfectly in both the lever action and the AR10.

1. I installed a RCBS Full Size Die (replaced the Dillon) at ¼ turn past the shell plate and I could feel the cam-over (Thank you @Nature Boy !)

2. I mixed Lanoline case lube (replaced Hornady 1shot) and

3. I applied the new case lube generously to the brass as well as the sizing die itself (thank you @Charlie98 !)

All the resizing noises are completely gone and resistance from the sizing die is down 95% from where it was.

@NMexJim thanks for pointing me to the SAAMI specs. I did use the drawings to verify the dimensions and I’ll now have them printed for every caliber I load for.



@ManFromMontana , I believe you said you already have an RCBS full length die, so you may want to try lubing it up with 10:1 Lanoline to 99% alcohol and adjusting as NatureBoy suggested. This solved it for me. Good luck and let me know if there is anything I can do to help you.

Thank you all again for everything !!!!!
 
That is an odd issue. I really really really doubt your case lube is the issue..though the lanolin/heat case lube is my go to. Imperial sizing wax is good as well if you are a low volume reloaded.

If you have your dies set right, the only other guess I'd have is oal. I personally don't believe in case guages. Headspace comparator is my preferred method
 
Ogive_actual said:
That is an odd issue. I really really really doubt your case lube is the issue..though the lanolin/heat case lube is my go to. Imperial sizing wax is good as well if you are a low volume reloaded.

If you have your dies set right, the only other guess I'd have is oal. I personally don't believe in case guages. Headspace comparator is my preferred method
Click to expand...

As best I can figure, I was not sizing the brass enough, leaving a bulge at the last couple/few thousandths of the base of the brass untouched. I was also getting a tremendous amount of resistance/noise on the sizing die. Though it could have been any of the following that actually fixed the issue, I adjusted the die down 1/4 turn past the shell plate, lubed the sizing die itself and swapped out the Dillon die for an RCBS all at the same time. It is now smooth as butter, but when I have a minute, I am going to try to narrow it down and put the Dillon back on, adjust it the same as the RCBS and lube it with the lanoline... just to see if it was the Dillon die causing the issue.
 
jpitt16 said:
As best I can figure, I was not sizing the brass enough, leaving a bulge at the last couple/few thousandths of the base of the brass untouched. I was also getting a tremendous amount of resistance/noise on the sizing die. Though it could have been any of the following that actually fixed the issue, I adjusted the die down 1/4 turn past the shell plate, lubed the sizing die itself and swapped out the Dillon die for an RCBS all at the same time. It is now smooth as butter, but when I have a minute, I am going to try to narrow it down and put the Dillon back on, adjust it the same as the RCBS and lube it with the lanoline... just to see if it was the Dillon die causing the issue.
Click to expand...

I’m going to bet that there’s nothing wrong with your Dillon die
 
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