.308 in a Dillon 650: bizarre problem

[Jgjgjg]

Reloaded 400 rounds of .308, mixed headstamp but mostly that sweet AFF brass from surplus rounds. I've been reloading this and other surplus .308 brass in this dillon for....15 years? Very few issues.

This lot, only one out of every 10 rounds would fire. The other 9 lodged in the AR-10 taking considerable slamming the butt on the ground while holding the charging handle to get the round out. Bought a hornady headspace gauge and yep--problems from mild to wild. Had the boy bullet hammer 380 some odd rounds and I start the process of resetting the machine and just cannot get it set. Or so I thought.

As it turns out, headspace was off, yes. But....something in the process is causing the base to expand in diameter by .005". I can resize a dozen cases an all of them are too long by the thickness of the base, but they fall right out when I turn the die over. Take the cases to the grinder and carefully grind some diameter off from the base and they fall right in.

Dillon 650: what could be causing this?

 

[1KPerDay]

If by base you mean rim, this is common with brass fired in autos. They get bent, pulled, burred, mangled. If you mean the case above the rim, no idea what's going on there...

 

[sparkyv]

I'm unclear on the description of the issue. BTW, pulling almost 400 rounds would anger me greatly, and that's the clean version!

That's why I use a cartridge guage.

 

[Jgjgjg]

If by base you mean rim, this is common with brass fired in autos. They get bent, pulled, burred, mangled. If you mean the case above the rim, no idea what's going on there...

it’s the Rim, yes.

 

[Jgjgjg]

I'm unclear on the description of the issue. BTW, pulling almost 400 rounds would anger me greatly, and that's the clean version!

That's why I use a cartridge guage.

I have a cartridge gauge now. I also have a 10 year and thus am less frosted than otherwise I would be.

The question is: is Rim diameter a huge deal?

 

[1KPerDay]

IME, no. The Garand beats the hell out of rims. I have some I’ve fired over 5x. I use another case rim to press them into my case gauge, which IMO helps to even out any dings/burrs, and the neck to press it back out from the open end. As long as they headspace correctly I’ve had no issues.

I also check them all with a dental pick to see if there’s any evidence of incipient case head separation.

 

[1KPerDay]

To be clear: it is my guess that your headspace issues result from not gauging all brass before you reloaded it. It was unclear whether you had a case gauge beforehand.

If not, make gauging each sized case a part of your routine, and I’d personally size them to the lower step in the Wilson type gauge if you’re using them in semi auto rifles.

this is needed because some cases will spring back more than others, especially with mixed brass that hasn’t been annealed. Out of 100 cases even from the same headstamp and fired the same amount of times, I’ll get 10-15 that won’t gauge properly and require another trip through the sizing die with it cranked a little further down.

annealing all your brass may help with this but who has time for that?

it’s also possible your Dillon has inconsistent shell holder support but I doubt it and I’ll let others opine on that.

Also confirm your bullets aren’t seated too long but I doubt you haven’t checked that.

this is all IMO and if I’m stating the obvious please forgive me; it’s somewhat unclear what processes you have done or not.

 

[Jgjgjg]

Absolutely. The problem with gauging each case is that with a progress it really destroys the point of using a progressive. You need to be able to setup in a way that you can just kichunk the machine.

Your point is well taken. I think what I’ll do now is take the 3 or 4 headstamps pick 3 or 4 of each,grind the rims, then setup so that the same group drops right into the gauge. Lock it down, call it good for a 100–take those to the range and if all is good reload that 100 and the rest.

 

[9mmepiphany]

it really destroys the point of using a progressive. You need to be able to setup in a way that you can just kichunk the machine.

I'm not sure who sold you that bill of goods, but that isn't the way a progressive press is setup to reload rifle brass...with the possible exception of 5.56mm...unless you have more than 5 die stations. The Lyman Mark 7 does it right with 10 stations.

Most of the local guys who are using Dillon 650 presses to reload rifle cartridges are either using two separate 650 presses or two toolheads. The first to deprime, prime, size, and trim. The second to drop powder, seat and crimp.

 

[Swampman]

 

[1KPerDay]

Absolutely. The problem with gauging each case is that with a progress it really destroys the point of using a progressive. You need to be able to setup in a way that you can just kichunk the machine.

Your point is well taken. I think what I’ll do now is take the 3 or 4 headstamps pick 3 or 4 of each,grind the rims, then setup so that the same group drops right into the gauge. Lock it down, call it good for a 100–take those to the range and if all is good reload that 100 and the rest.

betcha a nickel the rims have nothing to do with your headspace issues.

rifle takes a bit more work than handgun. You can still load mostly progressively; you just need to do it in 2 steps. You can size/decap and even trim in one pass, then gauge (and trim if you haven’t) off the press, then starting with sized and gauged brass, prime, charge, and seat progressively.

if you are using bulk mixed brass from unknown source, many of which may have been fired in machine guns with generous chambers, it’s my guess that your issues are not going to go away unless you add this step.

also IMO loading for semi autos, particularly those with floating firing pins, REQUIRES proper shoulder setback and sizing/gauging/trimming. It’s not just a matter of convenience. It’s a safety issue.

YMMV

 

[Jgjgjg]

Got it. Thank you gents. I will proceed and report back when there is something to report.

 

[Archie]

I have loaded .308 Winchester with an XL 650. Shooting some of it in an MI conversion and some in a couple of bolt rifles. I mostly loaded the 150 grain (fish) bullet at somewhere around 2600 feet per second. I didn't have any problems of a habitual nature.

Have you considered the loading dies?

 

[Jgjgjg]

I have loaded .308 Winchester with an XL 650. Shooting some of it in an MI conversion and some in a couple of bolt rifles. I mostly loaded the 150 grain (fish) bullet at somewhere around 2600 feet per second. I didn't have any problems of a habitual nature.

Have you considered the loading dies?

The dies work fine in a single stage. And...I’ve used the 650 repeatedly on .308. So something is off.