308 MBRs and parts availability (Galil, G3s, etc.)

[WeedWhacker]

I recently picked up a Galil in .308, which I am rather fond of. However, parts for the rifle have all but vanished since late last year, and I'm starting to wonder about keeping the Galil as a combination shooter/SHTF rifle if part availability is going to be a problem. I picked .308 because I liked the ballistics and the fact that 7.62X51 is a NATO round and should be available for a good while. Then I looked for reliability, which led me straight to the Galil. Again, I didn't consider availability of parts.

Other .308/7.62NATO rifles I'd looked at were the HK 93 and 91 knockoffs, the M14 and derivatives, and the FN FAL. The FAL is supposed to be finicky in desert environments (supposedly why the Galil was made), the M14 is supposed to have a lot of small parts (a relatively minor concern), and the G3... rough on brass due to the extraction process and tighter tolerances (IIRC) but otherwise fine.

Of the above rifles, which ones have high-quality parts and/or complete rifles being made in the USA or have plenty of imported parts around? The PTS-91 and the M14 are two I'm aware of; I'll have to do a little digging to check on the reliability of the currently manufactured models.

Also, might any other Galil fans know of any outfits planning to start manufacturing parts in the USA, assuming the BATF/whatever will allow them to?

 

[pipboy]

sorry i cant help but how much did you get the galil for?

 

[WeedWhacker]

They go for about three thousand for like/good as new for the 329(?) model. I likely overpaid a bit for mine as it was a HADAR II kit, but I don't mind much. In fact, I was/am considering buying a second HADAR II as a keeper and as emergency parts... but they're now about 1500-1800 by themselves!

Check gunsamerica.com for a feel on prices.

 

[Ian]

If you've already got the Galil, like it, and shoot well with it, then I wouldn't replace it. Just keep an eye out for parts at gun shows and on the web, and buy them up as you find them. Unless you're shooting 25,000 rounds a year, how many spare bits are you really going to need? A couple extractors, a couple firing pins, a bolt, a gas piston, and a trigger group should keep you in good shape for the rest of your life.

 

[Correia]

DSA makes US made FALs, and there are huge numbers of FAL parts in the country. Most of the breakable parts are US made for compliance parts for foreign parts kits.

If you want something that works like unto your Galil, you can get a .308 Saiga, convert it to a Galil configuration, and come in for much less than the price of a Haddar. (which is a sweet rifle btw). Saigas are common, and the base .308s start in the low 300 range.

In my own experience, with western high desert sand (not with fine ME sand) any of the .308 mags will go down once you get enough sand in the magazine. The FAL action is able to take a surprising amount of sand poured right into the action and not have a problem, but sand between the cartridges of the mag, and you are screwed. I did a big sand poured into my guns test several years ago (many posters thought I was insane ) Everything chokes once you get enough grit into it. The AKs went the longest, the AR types went out first.

 

[WeedWhacker]

Thanks for the info, folks!

Yes, I bought the rifle to be a shooter/utility rifle, but I was spoiled by the surplus of Glock parts available for my pistol and ASSumed the same would be more or less available for the Galil. In retrospect, it would probably be wiser to keep it in "like new" condition until I can see how the parts thing is going to work out - good luck trying to find a new .308 barrel for it! Heh heh.

I'm finishing up some quick research on the PTR-91, and since I don't have any plans to reload my own ammo, I'll probably pick one up for use as a shooter while the Galil keeps the safe company. A shame, really, as I do really like the Galil.

 

[Mad Bodhi]

The M14 has 61 parts vs 92 parts in the HK/Ptr91 and 143 parts in the Fal.The M14 was and remains the finest battle rifle ever made.Reliable in all environments,accurate and powerful.Of the three it is the only one still in use by front line troops (not including 3rd world backwaters) albeit it is being deployed as a DMR and not a general issue infantry rifle.Currently chewing up the same conditions that caused the Israeli's to drop the Fal and design the Galil.Though to be fair i believe the sensitivity to sand was addresed in the Inch version of the Fal.The M14 is functionally ambidexterous with sights and a trigger that no amount of money will deliver on the Fal or HK.I like the Fal and HK just fine,they'll readily accomplish anything you could ask of a battle rifle but the m14 does it better with capabilty to spare,get beyond 300 yds and there is no comparison at all.Anyone that say's an Fal or HK is better than an M14 is delusional in my not so humble opinion.

 

[itgoesboom]

Of the three it is the only one still in use by front line troops (not including 3rd world backwaters) albeit it is being deployed as a DMR and not a general issue infantry rifle.

I didn't realize that Sweden was a 3rd world backwater country.

Ofcourse, you also must realize that just like there are versions of the M14 still being used as DMRs (mainly because it is what we had available), there is similarly versions of the G3 being used. MSG90, PSG-1.

And the fact that the G3 is still used by a bunch of "3rd world backwater" countries only proves their abilities, seeing how durability and reliability are two of the most important traits for a MBR.

Now, I am not arguing that the G3 is the end-all, be-all, or that it is better than the M14.

But how many countries adopted the M14, including the ones that we just gave the rifle too?

How many countries adopted the G3/CETME design?

How many are still using them?

Just some food for thought.

I.G.B.

 

[meef]

I had a Galil when they first came out way back when. Paid $850 for it at the time. Nice rifle. Wish I had it now to sell...

I currently have a SOCOM 16. I love it. What a sweetheart of a rifle. Much more fun to shoot than the Galil. And currently, much more financially feasible.

I love .308. It's always been by far and away my favorite rifle caliber. Among other more mundane .308 things, I've also owned the above mentioned Galil, an HK-91, a Garand converted to an 18" barrel and .308, an M1A Scout and my current SOCOM 16.

Of all of them, the SOCOM has been my hands down favorite. I can't recommend them enough. Try it - you'll like it.....

 

[Mad Bodhi]

itgoesboom, Sweden's issue rifle is the AK-5. The AK-4 ie. their version of the G3 was replaced with the AK-5 which is a derivative of the FN-Fnc,a 5.56 mm weapon and not a .308 MBR.And third world countries issue whatever weapon they can mooch off of world powers.The weapon chosen has more to do with what world powers sphere of influence they happen to lie in.Durability and reliability are not the driving force,availability and cost are.The MSG90 and PSG-1 are purpose built sniper rifles based on the HK91 NOT tuned HK91's.Hell,they don't even have iron sights.You can take an M14 built for sniper work outshoot the 10,000 dollar german wundergun then knock the scope off the 14 and proceed to stomp the HK91 as well .Can you tell I love the M-14

 

[rino451]

How's the parts availability for the M14? I've been looking for something in .308 but choices appear to be few. I've read that it's important to use mil spec parts in the M14. How many companies manufacture replacement parts for the M14 and are they mil spec? I'm hesitant to pay the high cost of entry to get an M14 to have to worry about parts in the future.

Randall

 

[hksw]

Like you, I'm hesitant to further shoot a Galil I also have (7.62 ARM medium barrel length) as well as a 91A3. To make up for that reluctance, I bought a few surrogates to shoot in their place. These include a Super Vepr, a couple CETMEs, and recently a PTR91. The Vepr is a bit limited due to mag capacity in stock form, the CETMEs are CETMEs - not pretty but functional (at least mine), the PTR is still unfired as I bought it earlier this year but seems to be of very high build quality (I'm sure you've researched the history of JLD and their machinery.) I do like the PTR's heavy barrel.

Of the 3 designs, the PTR seems to be the best. I got mine with a retractable stock. I'm pretty sure it is of HK source as the markings are identical to my 91A3's stock.

There were a couple sources who built Galils from parts but the quality of those I'm not sure about. Even saw one last weekend at a gun show. 5.56 ARM built on a Hesse milled receiver but I'm sure you've seen some opinions of Hesse products. Sarco had some receivers and parts kits but not sure if they built the guns to completion.

Other options:

One thing I should have done in the past but failed to do so was get a genuine FN Para to complete my 'compactable' MBR collection. I did, however, finally get a DSA Para Congo to fill that gap. The gun is very well made, on the same level as the PTR and I'm sure if you research that company you'll see the history to be very similar (in terms of obtaining the machinery for their products). It'll probably be the closest I'll ever get to getting an actual FN Para. The FAL is, IMO, a pretty good platform despite having higher parts content. one if the easiest shooting too. (My CETME with wood furniture seems to be the easiest to shoot in regards to recoil.) Only fault (for me) in the FAL is the OE grip angle being a bit too rakish. easily remedied with a Tapco '249' grip (which I did with a couple FALs but not the Para).

Don't have an M1A but do have a Garand (CMP) and it is fun to shoot. The pistol grips of the others, though, seem a little more confortable to shoot.

Another route I recently took to fill in for the Galil was to get a couple 7.62X39 AK actions. Not as powerful as a 7.62X51 but cheaper which means more rounds to shoot. You can even dress them up a little to similar Galil configurations.

 

[The Grand Inquisitor]

If you are willing to step outside of the .30 cal realm, you should check out a Polish Tantal.

you can get one for about $600 or less right now (and they won't be around long and will cost about as much as a Galil will in 5-10 years) and it has a very well built, modern, Polish folder, and is one of the best AK-74 mods; also, another one of the great AK74 mods, the AKU-74, the Krinkov, is built like a beast, has a beautiful folding stock, and performs like a beast (which is why it is fielded by about 75 spec ops units around the world); if you live in a SBR state, you can buy one of the kits and a reciever, have a smith put it together for you, register it, and from there have a monster of a little rifle that will suit all situations.

both the Tantal and the Krinkov come in 5.45 (although the Krink is also chambered in 7.62x39) which is a killer round- quite literally. I have anumber of rifles in 5.45x39 and love them all; they have phenomenal accuracy, almost no recoil, and the ammo is still relitively plentiful and cheap.

Tantal info: tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/parts2.html




Krinkov info: http://world.guns.ru/assault/as03-e.htm

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[trbon8r]

The M14 was not sold in mass overseas because it was developed through the U.S. government arsenal system as was the M1. The production level of the M14 was designed to meet U.S. requirements, and U.S. requirements only. Being a government sponsored program it was never intended to be a money making venture. Contrast this with the FN made FAL or HK G3, which were produced by privately owned concerns looking to sell rifles for a profit. Was the M1 a lesser design than the Mauser, simply because it wasn't marketed and produced in mass all over the world?

Obviously the Belgians couldn't turn a buck just selling rifles to the Belgian army, so they had an army of salesmen combing the globe looking to sell FALs to anyone that had the money to pay for one. Likewise HK, had a similar goal.

For the record, I don't hate FALs or HKs. I even have a FAL buried deep in the back of my safe. I remember shooting it once a long time ago. It's an ok rifle, but like I said I can barely remember the last time it was at the range. Somehow the M1s and commercial M14 variants always seem to be the ones that go to the range.

 

[tangodown]

The only .308 I own is a Springfield SOCOM... It is an expensive rifle, and is about as accurate as my aresenal ak. But it probably one of the most enjoyable .308 rifles you can shoot... And it looks friggin awesome!!!

I am not really a huge fan of .308, but it can destroy a cynderblock wall with a 20rnd mag..... Kinda badass...