308 reloading issues

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Gamestalker
I have tried it that way as well, but not turning the seating die back as far. I will give it a shot in a few minutes and see what happens. Thanks
 
Popper Wrote:

Case length should be 2.000" COL at 2.8" should leave 0.8" sticking out. Check bullet diameter at 0.9 from tip. Should be 0.308". If bullet taper is too great you will push the base through the short neck of the 308. Bullet then falls into the case.
Click to expand...

Have you measured per Poppers post? Also, are these Wideners 'MilSpec' projectiles?
 
UPDATE:
Ok after following Gamestalker's advice I set up the dies accordingly. Before I could get the round down to 2.8 the round fell back into the case. I then started measuring at what point do I lose neck tension. I cannot get the rounds to seat below 3.0 (ten rounds average 3.03 to 3.05) before the tension is gone. I am still leaning towards the bullets. Am I stuck with these? I have never had this many issues loading one round...
 
RC109A,
Those bullets have a distinct taper from the tip to the .308 dia near the base. The .308 dia portion is very short, almost a ring. There is not a .308 cylindrical section (straight, non tapered) as on some other bullets. If that ring goes below the neck, then you are hitting on the undersized taper.

I never had any problems in the .308s I hand loaded. On the .30-06 I did. Different die. More to the root of the problem a different expander. I took a little off of the dia of the expander and it works great. Die set was used before I got it.

To date I have had 3 problems with expander sizes. One was the .30-06 mentioned above. My neighbor used it first and discovered the issue with different bullets. I had a used .243 with an expander that was undersized. New expander fixed it. Then I had a new .270 Lee collet neck sizer that needed a slight bit taken off to make me 100% happy with it. In every case the difference was a thousandth or two.

The only other thing to check is if the die is actually sizing the neck down enough without the expander. More of a long shot, but it rules the problem out.

I can take a measurement if you need them.

I have had good results with the 168's from Wideners.
 
Yes I am positive I am. I have adjusted the die every which way and trashed a lot of brass to prove it.

I think I might have it figured out.
I figured since RCBS is sending me a new expander that it would not hurt anything to mess with this one. I chucked it into the drill press and got out some fine course sandpaper. I reduced the expander to .305. I am not sure if this is bad or not, but now I have good neck tension and am able to seat to 2.8. I cannot push the bullets into the case by hand unless I push it on a hard object like my bench. It still takes some effort to do that.
 
I have completely taken out my expander stem on a lot of my dies. I like to have the ID of my necks about 0.004" to 0.005" less than my bullet diameter. For boat tail bullets that works fine. You can even seat boat tail bullets with even more tension than that. That way I don't have to worry about the expander ball pulling too hard on its way out of the case and actually pulling the shoulder out a bit along with expanding the neck. Once in awhile though with brass that has thick walls, it doesn't work so good and I have to put the expander ball back in, but I have resorted to sanding a couple of them down just a little bit like you did.

I have never used those bullets you have. All the .308 bullets I have ever measured have consistently been 0.308 - 0.3085" in diameter. I wonder how well those bullets shoot if they go all the way down to 0.306" that you measured.
 
Longdayjake- Thanks for that info.
Funshooter- So technically I can remove the expander all together and should not have any issues? I never tried this. I guess as long as the case mouths are not damaged then it should work. Might have to try this...

Does anyone know how well these rounds shoot? I am getting ready to load several to sight in my rifle, then start load development...
 
Do you have any other bullets you can try seating? I'm still kind of thinking it is something to do with the die's. Is it possible you may have the wrong expander in the resize die?
And is the resizing die adjusted all the way down to where the shell holder is making good contact with the die at full stroke, linkage popping over in other words?
You mentioned something about adjusting the die every which way you can. And also said you trashed a bunch of brass because of this. To my knowledge, a resize die will never damage brass regardless of how it is adjusted. It will either resize the brass if adjusted properely, or it won't if not adjusted accordingly. A long time a go friend of mine was not adjusting the sizing die down far enough, and had the same issue your having.
I'm sorry for the inquisition, but there is so much of what your saying that contradicts the proper adjusting of the dies, the sizer will deffinitely not trash brass unless you forget to lube, which isn't apparent.
Does anyone have a video to post that will demonstrate the correct set up for both die's?
I hope you can get this figured out, it's got to be pretty frustrating. Fortunately there are a lot of seasoned reloaders here to offer their expertise. This will proably turn out to be one of those once in a life time circumstances none of us thought of.
 
You should know that if you take the expander out of your die you may get too much neck tension which can increase pressures pretty good. Don't ask how I know.
 
Make sure the expander is the appropriate for the die and caliber. I had once RCBS sending me the wrong one.
 
I guess I said it wrong. I did not actually trash any brass due to the resizing die, just the seater die (bumping the shoulder back too far).

Right now I have the seater die adjusted down to where it makes contact and back 1/4 turn as 918V suggested. The seater die is adjusted down to where it made contact then back up one full turn (die is not touching the case). The seater is adjusted so the bullet overall length is at 2.8. The tension is now great. I cannot physically push the bullet in by hand. I pulled some and the amount of effort to pull the bullets are on par with other rounds I load.

Overall I believe that the expander die was slightly out of round and on the large size. I have sanded the expander down to a consistant .305 and it appears to work. When I get the new one in from RCBS I will change it out and see what happens. THANK YOU ALL for the great help and outstanding suggestions. I am still relativily new to reloading (only been doing it for 6 years or so) and I am always learning from you guys. Once again THANK YOU!!
 
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