.308 seating depth / COAL question.

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Does all this "x inches off the lands" stuff really matter? Or is it another symptom of the disease known as Reloader's OCD?

Im not being critical, Ive got a strong case of it too, but Im just wondering about how important all this off the lands stuff is..


Yes, it absolutely does. I've seen the difference at 100 yards and up to 1000 yards. It really does make a difference. It can either widen the grouping and/or tighten the group. Just depends in bullet and rifle. Just have to test your known loads at different OALs.
 
Gotcha. So is their a cardinal rule, or a length (off the lands) your aiming for? Or is that the whole thing, you just have to experiment with every load to see what works best, and it can be different for every bullet/rifle?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Potatohead
Does all this "x inches off the lands" stuff really matter? Or is it another symptom of the disease known as Reloader's OCD?

Im not being critical, Ive got a strong case of it too, but Im just wondering about how important all this off the lands stuff is..


Yes, it absolutely does. I've seen the difference at 100 yards and up to 1000 yards. It really does make a difference. It can either widen the grouping and/or tighten the group. Just depends in bullet and rifle. Just have to test your known loads at different OALs.

It does if you can shoot well enough to make a difference. In my case not so much:mad:
 
And from the little bit Ive gathered, this isnt something you would much worry about loading for an AR15 (223), is that correct? (and why)

Hopefully Im not straying to far from topic.
 
Not really a cardinal rule or anything. My rifle likes it very well about .125" off lands but likes it a bit better at .045" off.

I tested all the way down to .01" off but best group was at .045 off lands for bullet I was using.

Just have to experiment.
 
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So it's more to do with the rifle most likely? I mean, any bullet you use, when you find the spot, the spot will usually stay the same? And then you just have to worry about getting the bullet to that spot no matter the bullet? Hope that was clear enough.
 
If Sunray or anyone is still following this thread, have a look-see at this:

Oh by the way this was shot with a SAVAGE AXIS and Walmart Centerpoint scope! So all the haters and nay-sayers that dog on these 'entry level' rifles can..... potentially reconsider their opinions! LOL
IMO calling someone out by name just because they have a different opinion than you have is acting not very High Road at all.

As for the little ditty at the end of your post, not very High Road behavior either. I didn't see any hating in this thread, only opinions you didn't like. Sure you may be able to shoot one whole groups with an inexpensive scope and rifle at only 100 yards shooting your reloads but that glass will not serve you well out to 600, 800 and 1000 yards compared to slightly better glass. No, I'm not saying you need to spend $3000 but up near $500 is for the most part entry level at distance shooting.

With all the new manufacturing improvements and machinery most entry lever hunting rifles today will match and probably surpass the performance of custom made rifles from 30+ years ago but remember, the custom rifles are much better today than then too. I was also impressed with the new batch of entry level hunting rifles over the past 10 years until I shot a custom target rifle and saw first hand what real and repeatable accuracy was all about. The targets looked to me like someone else shot them.

Try not to act in a way that puts what you're saying in a bad light. We all have our opinions and should respect other members even if you disagree.
 
My apologies. I just really dislike 'haters' who spread bad information and stereotypes about guns they have little to no personal experience with. I'm not saying thats what Sunray specifically has done, just that it bothers me when someone asked about a gun like the savage axis and people with no experience with that gun put it down just because its in expensive. Sunray did state "using match grade bullets in a hunting gun won't make much difference" and I feel I have clearly proven that wrong. In another thread he states that ".375 will never be a target rifle", no, as I said before I don't expect it to keep up with bench rest guns that cost thousands of dollars, but I personally consider 3/8" out of this gun to be outstanding for 98% of what people would want or need out of a bolt gun. As for the glass, I agree that it has its downfalls, it's not crystal clear and I know it doesn't stand up to scopes in the $300-$600 range. As for the distance, that is what I will be looking into next. We will see how it performs. I feel that for a new shooter, hunter, or enthusiast with $800 to spend for example a whole lot of learning, practice and experience can be had out of a $300-$350 rifle, $70 scope, and the remaining $380 spent on ammo as compared to $500-$700 for a rifle and $300+ on a scope and not much if any left for ammo. To each their own and you are correct I should have been more respectful of others opinions. As for the ditty at the end of my post it was meant in jest and good fun not to offend or put down.

For the record I would love to have the funds and time to make use of target rifle that would put my 3/8" group to shame, but I don't. If not for this entry level gun, Walmart scope, and lee reloading equipment, I would not be able to even think about doing the shooting that I do, and for that I am quite thankful. I just want people to know what is possible and what is available to them. Again my apologies, and I will try to conduct myself in a more professional manner in the future.
 
And from the little bit Ive gathered, this isnt something you would much worry about loading for an AR15 (223), is that correct? (and why)

Hopefully Im not straying to far from topic.

the caliber change isn't important, but the "AR15" part usually but not always implies you intend to magazine feed, which mean your OAL has to be short enough to fit in the magazine, which usually means your bullet will be nowhere close to the lands. at least on a factory rifle.

HP service rifle shooters often use 80g SMK which won't fit in the mag, but it doesn't matter since match rules require single feeding one round at a time. with that long bullet, you can get it into the lands on a custom chambered barrel
 
I hardly ever find myself using the magazines anymore. I'm always loading one at a time whether it fits or not. Lol.

I guess a side affect of shooting comp. Lol
 
I remember when I had first started loading for my .270 win and all I had was my bone stock ADL, a $30 Tasco 3x9, and my reloads. I shot some amazing ragged holes groups at 100 yds.. The down side, was that, that Tasco wouldn't hold zero for very many rounds. It would do fine for 5-10 rounds, then start drifting off zero. Eventually it got so bad that it simply wouldn't hold repeatable zero at all.

But yes, you can get some impressive groups with junk glass, for a while anyway.

GS
 
the caliber change isn't important, but the "AR15" part usually but not always implies you intend to magazine feed, which mean your OAL has to be short enough to fit in the magazine, which usually means your bullet will be nowhere close to the lands. at least on a factory rifle.

HP service rifle shooters often use 80g SMK which won't fit in the mag, but it doesn't matter since match rules require single feeding one round at a time. with that long bullet, you can get it into the lands on a custom chambered barrel
Oh ok. Thanks very much for your answer..very clear now. Is this one of the reasons that ARs (mag fed I guess) are known to not be quite as accurate, because the bullet is nowhere near the lands, or am I way off here?
 
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