.308 versus 7.62 by 51: What Gives?

[Drakejake]

I bought some ammo described as both .308 Nato and 7.62 by 51, apparently US military ammo. I bought it for the Saiga rifle sold by CDNN and described as .308. Now I read there are slight but perhaps significant differences between .308 Win and the 7.62. Can I fire this ammo from this rifle or have I screwed up? (I am a complete novice with rifles and rifle ammo.)

Thanks,

Drakejake

 

[PAC 762]

Don't sweat it. Your siaga will eat either caliber. The differences are very minor.

 

[jefnvk]

I believe that guns chambered for .308 Winchester shouldn't have 7,62x51 (NATO spec) ammo used in them, due to looser tolerances for the NATO ammo. Guns chambered for 7,62x51 can use either, which I am assuming is how the Saiga is set up.

 

[Drakejake]

One might think that since Saiga is a Russian product and since Nato is primarily European, that their rifle would be identified by the metric 7.62 by 51 rather than the English .308 (inches) Win. And yet the rifle seems to be generally called a .308, even by the importer, and when the metric calibre is mentioned, it is implied to be synonymous with .308. In short, you usually cannot tell whether the rifle or the ammo is actually .308 or 7.62 by 51. This seems to imply either a widespread ignorance of the differences between the two or an assumption that the differences have no significance. So I guess that all I can do is try the ammo in the rifle and see if there are any problems--such as a bulging primer which indicates a headspace problem. Agree?

Drakejake

 

[Fumbler]

The difference is in the chambers, not the cartridges.
The 7.62NATO specifications allow for a longer chamber than .308Win.
.308 Win is loaded to pressures just a tiny bit more than the 7.62x51. The difference in pressure is negligable, but if the chamber is long (but still within 7.62x51 spec) and the ammo is commercial .308 then there could be excessive stretching of the brass and the brass could split. that's not good if you plan to reload.

You should have no problem at all shooting 7.62x51 in a rifle designated as .308Win. Just don't shoot the Federal High Energy or Hornady Light Magnum in your Saiga, it wasn't made with those extra hot loads in mind.

 

[RooK]

My Saiga (as should yours) is marked 7,62x51 on the right side of the receiver with .308WIN right above it. I believe the .308 marking was added later at the importer since the 7.62 one uses a comma instead of a period, common practice in European numerics. Fire away with .308 or 7.62x51, plenty of people have used NATO surplus in their Saigas without a problem, just avoid the Indian stuff due to bad QC on the ammunition's part. Aussie F4 is good ammo if you buy some of it.

Forgot to add... The ammo is 7.62x51 if it's made by a NATO manufacturer. You can tell this by looking at the base of the cartridge and looking for a circle with crosshairs in the center.

 

[Drakejake]

The makrings on the bottom of the .308 round are not very informative (to me). There is a circle with somethihng like a cross inside and also the markings LC 01. Ammoman advertised this ammo as recent production for US ,ilitary. Cam loose in a bag inside a box. I ordered 500 rounds. By my count, they sent me 511 or so.

Drakejake

 

[Drakejake]

Sorry about typos. Just got up and eyes are teary.

Drakejake

 

[BigG]

The cross in the circle means it is a NATO standard round. You have 7.62 NATO ammo. Should shoot fine in the SAIGA. I have a Baikal 308/7,62 marked gun and it shoots both fine. HTH

 

[goon]

It's Lake City ammo made in 2001. Sounds like pretty decent stuff to me.
I'd shoot it.

 

[molonlabe]

for a very good discussion on the topic see here.
http://www.thegunzone.com/30cal.html

 

[Risasi]

Jeffnvk,

That's not entirely true. I have a CETME and some HK's. You cannot/should not use .308 ammo in it. Of course I have used it, and of course I've ripped the heads off the back of .308 ammo. Not that it matters. With the fluting in a G3 type system it's not like you have anything left to reload anyway.

Generally speaking they can be used in an interchangeable fashion. The .308 loads hotter, and is usally softer brass. Certain guns have difficulty if chambered in one and shooting the other. As it has been noted the .308 is longer. NATO cartridges now days are usually shorter too. As well they should be. They are made to a looser spec for the very reason that a military wants a gun that will go bang every time it's fired. Generally speaking .308 should fire 7.62 NATO (with exceptions), but a 7.62 NATO chambered gun check before firing .308 in it.

The Saiga is fine with both.

 

[Master Blaster]

.308 ammunition and 7.62x51 ammo are dimensionally the same. 7.62X51 may be loaded weaker or hotter than .308 commercial ammo, it depends on the load and the manufacturer.

Military arms are designed for military loads of a certain specification, so a firearm like a Cetme or an FAL may shoot some commercial ammo well, and it may have problems with heavier commercial hunting loads and heavier bullet weights (mil spec ball is usually loaded with 147-150 grain bullets).

A military spec 7.62x51 chamber can suffer more errosion and meet spec, or could be a little larger than a .308 saami chamber.

I have a saiga .308 it fires milspec ammo just fine, and it also fire commercial ammo just fine. the .308 spec means that it meets saami spec for .308, so it May Be little tighter than a military 7.62x51 chamber, depending on the military arm you are comparing it too.

 

[Chipperman]

"With the fluting in a G3 type system it's not like you have anything left to reload anyway. "

Reloading it is fine. The challenge is FINDING the brass. My HK91 ejects the brass about 20 yards at 2 O'clock. It can be quite distracting the the shooter on my right.

 

[buttrap]

One point thats usualy over looked is 7.61 brass is thicker,something you dont really think about till you try to shoot Rem .308 in a M-60....it dont work.

 

[Feanaro]

Everyone says the .308 loads are hotter but they are looking at the max SAMI specs. Individual companies don't always load that hot. NATO loads aren't loaded exactly the same either. http://www.cruffler.com/trivia-June01.html
http://www.smellysmleshooters.net/ammopressure.htm

With the fluting in a G3 type system it's not like you have anything left to reload anyway.

The fluting doesn't do anything to the brass but get it a little dirty. And keep it from sticking to the chamber walls. The problem occurs when the brass hits the side of the receiver and is folded in half.

 

[Drakejake]

Saigas Picked Up Today (photos)

These two came from CDNN. The one with the short mag is .308, the long mag, 7.62 by 39. Ordered on Monday, arrived at my FFL yesterday (Thursday). I put a brush through the bores. The guns are not at all greasy, just a little oil here and there. The guns appear to be decent in quality and finish. I looked at the manual. I installed the scope mount and cheap scopes. I loaded the mags and practiced inserting and removing them. These are my first rifle purchases in real rifle calibres (I have a Ruger 9mm carbine). I hope to try these out this weekend before I leave for the Socialist Republik of California.

Drakejake