.308 vs 30-06 vs bigger

[Polar Express]

After reading the 30-06 vs 270 thread, I was writing a reply. As I was reading it over before the post, it occurred to me that I might be taking the thread in a direction the OP’er did not intend, and that my thoughts and questions did not directly pertain to his/her post. I didn’t want to be a hijacker. I enjoyed the replies and the thread.

While I don’t expect others to make a decision for me, I have been brainstorming about a somewhat similar concept. After reading the other thread, I figured I’d post it up, and see what I may be missing in my thought process, and what suggestions and experience others may have.

I too, am wondering if I should pick up a 30-06. I don’t really have an interest in a .270. (If I’m going to do that, I think I’d rather go down to a .243.) I recently picked up an M1A, so I already have a 7.62x51. I also have a 7x57 (Ruger #1) and 8x57 (Mauser m98) as my hunting rifles. They work just fine, (I do need to find a new stock for the 8x57) so do I NEED another hunter? No. And, I don't really have a burning desire to add another hunting gun to the safe, just for the sake of doing so. My big reason is the two I have are not all that common, and as such, the ammo is a bit harder to find.

I don't reload yet, but, I'm ramping up to start. But, even with reloading, I’ve got to buy dies, and the consumables. I’ll bet I have less than 100 rounds of both combined, (including spent brass), and dies are likely going to be $50+ per caliber. Once that’s done, what do I have? About 60 rounds of one, and 40 of the other, and that 8mm, the bullet options are not nearly as diverse as in the 30 caliber category.

It just seems like you can go into any "ma & pa" type store and if they carry any ammo at all, they are likely to have a box of 30-06 on the shelf. I like that. In a way, it almost seems un-American not to own a 30-06. I've also considered picking up a .308 bolt gun instead. I could use the same brass, and just load up the hotter loads for hunting, and the mild-med loads for the higher volume in the M1A. It's a dilemma for sure, and if funds were free-flowing, I'd jump on both, and add a .338 to the mix for the big stuff.
If things go goofy on us, and ammo gets scarce, then having a gun that shoots a cartridge that is very available can be a huge plus, and simple case volume tells me you can get more energy out of the 30-06 than the .308, but I'll confess that I don't know what the exact numbers are, as I have not purchased a reloading manual yet. 'Holes-in-paper-power' is a lot different than 'drop power' at the same distances, and the purpose of this gun would not be just putting holes in paper. I have a lot to learn, but doesn't the 30-06 give you the best combination of the most power in a highly available package? Sure, the magnum cartridges have pack a bigger wallup, but, then you're back to the availability issue.

Either way, the more I think about it, I seems like I would be foolish NOT to pick up a .308 bolt gun since I'm going to be amassing large amounts of brass, etc. Nothing fancy, just a plain and simple, bolt gun. I’ve heard the Remington 700 is a pretty good value? And, if that is indeed what I do, it does seem a little silly to buy a gun that is just so similar-the 30-06. So, maybe then I make the jump to a magnum, but then I'm right back at the 'how available is ammo' question, and I’ve just talked myself into a circle.

It’s getting late, I hope you all had a wonderful Easter!

 

[Oro]

I have a lot to learn, but doesn't the 30-06 give you the best combination of the most power in a highly available package?

I believe that was your basic question. The answer is a qualified "Yes." And with reloading, it can be tailored with rounds from 90gr. on up to take any game, and I mean ANY - squirrels to bear - in North America. It is a great cartridge; one of the all time greats.

 

[cratti]

90gr.? If you're willing to shell out the big bucks you can go all the way down to 55gr bullets.

 

[moooose102]

308 and 30-06 are pretty much balistic twins. if you are going to hand load, you will be able to do anything with the 308 that the 30-06 can do. just a matter of you loading it for that purpose. the big advantage of an 06 over a 308 (at least to me) is if you do not hand load. the variety of store bought ammo for the 30-06 makes all other calibers jealous. period. as far as remington 700's, i love mine. it is chambered in 300 win mag, but the rifle is very good imo. fyi, i often download my 300 win mag to 30-06 levls. it is much nicer to shoot (especially target shoot) at those levels. plus, the brass lasts longer.

 

[woof]

I think the concern about being able to go into some gas station and buy ammo is taken way out of proportion. If you invest in a rifle you should also invest in a cache of ammo for it. If SHTF the ma and pa gas stations won't be there anyway. There are many valid reasons for choosing a .30-06 but IMO, gas station ammo isn't among them.

 

[jmr40]

I'm a big 30-06 fan but in your case the 308 makes a lot of sense. I hand load for both and they are close enough to be interchangeable for most uses. The 30-06 will always be more powerful regardless of what some people try to tell you, but 98% of the big game animals in the USA will never know the difference, nor will a paper target. If you only want to own 1 gun the 30-06 is the one to have. If you want to own several the 30-06 is probably not needed.

 

[USSR]

308 and 30-06 are pretty much balistic twins. if you are going to hand load, you will be able to do anything with the 308 that the 30-06 can do. just a matter of you loading it for that purpose.

Actually, not. If you handload, you can duplicate the .308 with .30-06 handloads, in fact that is pretty much the way factory .30-06 is loaded. But, there are heavy bullet .30-06 handloads that you simply cannot duplicate with a .308.

Don

 

[woof]

Can someone tell me what the application is for the high end .30-06 loads that cannot be duplicated with the .308? In other words, yes there is a small gap but where does it matter? I say anything too big or too dangerous for .308 is too big for .30-06 also and you need to be moving up to .338 magnum.

 

[jmr40]

Woof in principle I agree with you. 35 years ago when I bought my 1st rifle I went with the 30-06 because at that time I envisioned it as being my only rifle. If I had never bought another rifle that would have been a wonderful choice. The 30-06 will shoot bullets of equal weight 100-200fps faster than a 308 and will do a better job with bullets weighting over 150 gr.

Since the 30-06 was my 1st rifle and the one I have used the most there is a sentimantal attachment there I cannot shake and I still feel there is no better all around cartridge.

Even with that if I were to start over today I might buy 3 rifles to cover all of my hunting needs and would probably skip the 30-06 for exactly the reasons you stated. I would buy a 5lb Kimber in 308 as my general purpose rifle and for deer hunting. I would buy something smaller, probably in 223 and go up to something like the 338-06 or 35 Whelen for my bigger gun. Since long range shooting is not something I normally done here I would skip the magnums.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Absolutely not, you don't need one. There's not 2 scrunthair's worth of difference between ANY of the calibers you mention, in the real world. If you're gonna get something different, then get something DIFFERENT, with noticeably less recoil (.243 or smaller), or a big bore or medium bore (.35 Whelen, .375 HH mag, .45-70, etc.).

Want is a different story.

 

[Water-Man]

Since you have a .308 you don't need a .30-06. If you want something different, get a .243 or .375 or both. Ammo should be a non issue.

 

[USSR]

woof,

Using a 190gr Hornady BTSP as an example (since I have fired many 190gr bullets in both .308 and .30-06), with a 26" barrel I can barely get 2700fps in my .308 but easily get 2900fps in my .30-06. The difference in muzzle energy is 3,076 for the .308, and 3,549 for the .30-06. Increase the bullet weight more, and the difference becomes even more profound. Whether this approximate 500 ft. lbs. of energy matters on a particular game animal is your call. While I will grant you that there are few game animals in the U.S. that would warrant heavy for caliber bullets such as these (big bears), my comment was strictly in response that a blanket statement that the .308 can be handloaded to do anything that a .30-06 can do.

Don

 

[Ben Shepherd]

The other half of the heavy bullet thing in the '06 is construction. There are some VERY tough 30 cal. bullets out there, including some solids....

The '06 can launch them a a good velocity, the 308 can't.

In all honesty though, if the heaviest thing you'll ever run is a 180 soft point, barrel lengths/finishes can in some cases make as much or more difference than the 2 calibers in question will.

 

[Todd1700]

I think the concern about being able to go into some gas station and buy ammo is taken way out of proportion. If you invest in a rifle you should also invest in a cache of ammo for it.

It's not just that 30-06 ammo is available everywhere it's also that sporting goods stores will typically have a very good selection of 30-06 ammo as well. They may only have 3 or 4 types of ammo in most calibers but will probably have 10 to 15 different types of 30-06. An important consideration for the non-reloader.

 

[jester_s1]

Simple answer: Do you want a .30-06? If yes, you should buy one. If no, then you shouldn't because you don't need it. You already have several deer caliber rifles that the .30-06 won't improve upon. Be smart with your ammo buys and you won't ever have to worry about supply (why do so many guys wait until opening day to buy ammo anyway?) for any of the calibers you have.

If the question were replacing your current gun cabinet with one good .30-06, then there might be some debating to do. But with what you already have, the only reason to add yet another deer rifle to your arsenal is that you're itching to buy a new gun and this is just one you don't have yet.

 

[RevolvingCylinder]

If you load your own 8mm Mauser, you'll have that power edge over the .308.You don't need a .30-06 but if you want one then go for it. You should put more priority into setting up for reloading. You will be able to enjoy the rifles you already own more.

 

[CZguy]

the only reason to add yet another deer rifle to your arsenal is that you're itching to buy a new gun and this is just one you don't have yet.

This logic has worked well for me.

 

[MNgunhead]

You question whether a Rem700 is a good value in your post. I think they are great. I've owned several and they have all shot really well with my handloads. I currently own a sps model in 270 win that shoots pretty good. It'll shoot sub 1 inch groups with the Barnes 130 grain triple shocks and they did a number on two deer last fall. Both were bang-flops. I have also owned a Tikka t3 in 30-06 that was unbelievably accurate. Unfortunately I heard about the recall they had due to exploding barrels and decided to dump that one. It was probably a mistake. I recently purchased a Ruger Hawkeye in 338 win mag and am happy with the accuracy out of it as well. These days most of the better production guns are pretty accurate. Good luck deciding, there are so many options, it is nearly impossible to decide.

 

[High Planes Drifter]

I've never subscribed to the rationale' of buying a new car simply because it gets a bit better fuel mileage than my truck ; nor buying a new rifle simply because ammo for it is a bit cheaper/more commonly available than what I'm shooting now.


In other words.....You can buy alot of ammo/reloading supplies/books on reloading/accessories for your rifles/etc.. with the 800 or so dollars that you would shell out on a new rifle.


Thats just my thinking anyways ; good luck with whatever decision you make....

 

[Art Eatman]

By and large, the '06 does better for velocity with 24" to 26" barrels. If you have a 22" barrel, odds are that factory .308 will perform just as well, particularly with 150- and 165-grain bullets.

If you have a 26" barrel, and you handload, you can generally get some 300 ft/sec more out of an '06 than with the usual run of sporting .308s.

 

[T.R.]

The numbers on ballistic charts are minimally beneficial at best, unless you compare energy figures at 300 yards. Then compare drop from 200 yard zero at 300 yards.

It's easy to see that from the charts that there is little actual difference in trajectory between 25-06, 270, 280, 7m-08, .308, 30-06, and 7mm MAG. Couple inches in drop is almost impossible to discern between these flat shooting cartridges.

I prefer .308 simply because I like to hunt with a 20 inch barrel carbine because of the rough country my hunts take me to each year. 20 inch barrel 30-06 is a hard kicker with no ballistic advantage.

Want a great elk rifle in .308? Shoot 'em twice. Do the math and you'll see that two .308 chest hits at 225 yards far exceeds one shot for 300 Weatherby MAG. I've already fired my second shot before the Weatherby shooter has come down off the recoil from his first hard kicking shot. My elk will topple sooner every time. No kidding.

TR

 

[Polar Express]

Thanks for all the replies so far, I'm enjoying them. Please keep them coming!

High Plains Drifter makes a very good point, If what you have works, why buy something just cuz it's different, unless that's exactly what you want, 'something different'. If that is indeed what you mean, then point made, and taken.

And, it's not that I WANT something different. Or NEED something different, what I have can work just fine. And, like I said earlier, that 8mm and I are good friends, but the stock was cut down to fit me when I was a kid, and I NEED a new one if I'm going to stay with that gun.

Since I will be picking up the reloading equip, then sure, dies, more brass, and some bullet options will be much less $ than a whole new gun. But some of you have mentioned EXACTLY what I was trying to refer to, being so many store options for '06 in comparison to the 'x57 rounds I have. IF we get the SHTF condition, Woof is exactly correct, there won't be any more 'ma and pa' gas stations anymore, much less selling ANY ammo. But... that also means that there will be way more '06 "stuff" out there in peoples' closets than stuff for my 7x57 and 8x57 oddballs. Right?

It certainly seems that there is an ongoing debate with regards to the .308 vs. 30-06, and the capabilities of each at various yardage for 'dropping' power. And yes, the easy solution is a second round. Makes a lot of sense. You don't need to buy a dump truck when you can make 2 trips with the good pickup you already own.

Hmmmm, guess I have some more thinking to do. But please, keep the replies coming, I'm sure there some information I have not thought of yet.

 

[jjohnson]

.308 by a nose

Well, I'm an old .30-06 guy (bought first one in 1972), but over the years, I've started bit by bit to use more of the .308. BOTH made great sense at the time.

In 1972, there was TONS of surplus .30-06 available because our military had stopped using it - and there wasn't much .308 surplus to be had. The great Springfield 03-A3 and surplus ammo was economical for a teenager back then.

Move forward 37 years.... and .308 surplus is way more common than the .30-06 these days. I mention surplus because it's cheap but effective - for plinking and practice. And the military ball in both calibers have served well. They also provide good brass for reloading your favorite game loads.

The .308 is available in shorter actions and more auto rifles (if you care for that). Outside of the slight edge the venerable '06 can do at the upper end of loads with that couple of grains more capacity, they're ballistically nearly identical. This is NOT at all like a 9mm vs .45 debate. If you're pushing 220 grains while hunting Kodiak or Polar bear, maybe you want that little margin.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy another .30-06, but if economy is important to you, it's a bit cheaper for .308 when you factor surplus. Both are VERY popular in over the counter ammo sales. If you have a burning desire for a particular rifle, like an M1 Garand or an M1A, your decision is already made for you - but if not, there's no bad answer.

 

[Polar Express]

Well, thanks again to all who posted. I think I've come to a decision about what direction I'm going to head at this time.

First of all, I'm going to keep my eyes open for a .308 bolt gun, (initially, I like the idea of that Rem 788, but that will be subject to price and availability of what I find) and learn about the different ways to load that case, for different puropses. I already have the M1A, so I'll likely stick with a NATO spec round to feed that, and do some experimenting with the loads for the commercial rifle.

As far as a round to pack a larger wallup, I'm going to start looking into a magnum cartrige that I could use for longer distances, with more 'drop' power. The first two that come to my mind as contenders for my $ are the .300 Win Mag, or the .338 Win Mag. I have a lot to learn before I decide what direction to head with the magnum platform.

I may decide to use that Ruger #1 in 7x57 or my M98 in 8x57 as trade bait for either of those. They both work very well, but at this point, I want something chambered in a more common cartrige.

Of course... this could all change if I learn something else new that I hadn't considered yet.

 

[jkingrph]

In the medium 30 cal power range, you go 300 Savage, 308 Win, 30-06 then 300 Win Mag. With each caliber jump you get 100-200fps velocity gain with same bullet.

Dad got me a 30-06 Win Mod 70 ftw in 1963 as prize points in a sales contest for Underwood typewriter. We did not have caliber choice so that was that.. While in college with friends in National Gaurd, 30-06 ammo was easy to come by so I never looked back, never wanted or needed a 308 and have never had one. It's too close behind the 30-06 for me to consider, however it I were shooting high power match, I probably would have one as it is supposed to have a slight accuracy edge.

Lately I have been shooting a 375 H&H Mag, a lot more punch and similar trajectories to my old standby 30-06's.

300 Savage is a fun round, much milder than the 06, and I have a bunch of Swiss milsurps in 7.5x55 Swiss which is very close to the 308.