32-20 ammo concerns (OLD ammo)

[The Alaskan]

I was going through some ammo cans this afternoon and ran across two old boxes of 32-20 that I got from my uncle who trades in vintage Winchesters. Both boxes are the white, Winchester Western with the red X and "WW" over it. Both are the old style, 50 rounds packed loose (no cardboard or plastic dividers for each round) type box. Both are marked Olin on the bottom. Both are marked 32-20 100 gr. Soft Point. Both are marked X32202.

One is marked "50 Rifle or Handgun Cartridges," and one is marked "50 Rifle Cartridges." See the difference there? It's not marked "Rifle Only" just "Rifle." Virtually all Winchester ammo boxes (today) are marked "Rifle Cartridges" so I half wonder if the difference in box markings is just a difference in packaging, especially given that both boxes have the same catalog number (X32202),which "should"mean they are the same ammo. There are no"High Power" or "High Velocity" markings on the box.

ORRRRR...do I have a box of the "high power" "rifle ONLY" cartridges that they stopped making in the 50's. (Those things are like Unicorns: I've heard of them, but I've never seen one.) The distinction is an important one as I shoot the ammo in a 1930 production Colt Police Positive.

The fine print on the back is similar, but not the same. The box marked "Rile Cartridges" has a line "Use only in Winchester and other standard arms in good condition..." that is not on the "Rifle or Handgun Cartridges" box,which has a caution about +P cartridges in aluminum frames.

For those in the know, who are experienced with guns in this caliber, what is my best course of action here? As I see it, I can hold my breath and shoot them, or I can set them aside until such time as I can pull the bullets, dump the powder and maybe reload them (I have no reloading gear and it may be some time before I do-if ever), or I can toss them.

On a related note, I was back in Cabela's today, after buying a box of HSM 32-20 Cowboy ammo, and I found more 32-20 in a different part of the ammo section. It appears that Remington is no making a "Rifle Only" load, and it is clearly marked as such. While we're on the subject, does anyone know anything about the HSM, Ultramax, and Black Hills ammo in this caliber as to a.) safety in vintage, original guns and b.)quality & performance?

Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

[Old Fuff]

A lot of revolvers have been ruined with a bulged barrel after a squib .32-20 bullet was left stuck in the bore, and the next slug did a number.

Rifle ammunition (unless very old made during the late 1800's) had 1/2 jacketed bullets with a flat point. Rounds intended to be used in revolvers, as well as rifles had all-lead bullets.

Current day "Cowboy loads" are loaded with lead bullets and safe in either rifle or pistol. Personally this is what I'd shoot in a Colt Police Positive Special or S&W .32-20 Hand Ejector. If I was going to shoot very much I'd handload the required cartridges.

 

[GBExpat]

While waiting for someone to come along with definitive answers to your questions, I will toss some related additional info into the thread.

When I got my grandfather's old 4" Colt Army Special from my cousin for the purpose of developing loads, he also gave me the 2 partial boxes factory ammo that he had.

One was a contemporary-looking box (w/styro tray) of Remington ammo (#R32202) with 100gr half-jacket FP bullets along with a notation, "FOR USE IN ALL REVOLVERS & RIFLES".

6 rounds thru that old Colt averaged 694fps.

The other box was ancient-looking box (#32201) like you described, but with "Western" in script over the big red X. According to the description on the end of the box it contains, "100GR. LUBALOY". The FP bullets appear to be 100% copper-plated lead.

6 rounds thru that old Colt averaged 723fps.

 

[the Real Alpo]

Remington is not making the "rifle only" stuff. Putting ammo that is too hot for a pistol, into a pistol and blowing it up will get you sued. That's why they quit making the "rifle only" stuff, so many years ago.

I presume you have reached that conclusion because the Remington ammo is marked RIFLE, and is in the rifle ammo section.

But you see, no matter HOW LONG it is, or HOW MANY pistols are chambered in it, 32/20, 38/40 and 44/40 are all rifle rounds. They were introduced in the Winchester 1873 rifle.

The BFR and the T/C Contender are both available in 45/70. The Contender also comes in 35 Remington, 30/30 Winchester and 223 Remington. Since both the BFR and the Contender are pistols, does that mean that the 45/70, 30/30, 223 and 35 Remington are pistol cartridges? Heck no. It means that there are some pistols that are chambered in these rifle cartridges.

If you go find a ballistics table - back of the Shooters Bible, or look one up online - you will find that the 32, the 38 and the 44 Winchester are all listed in the RIFLE section, not the PISTOL.

 

[the Real Alpo]

If you wish to be absolutely certain as to whether those two boxes are the "rifle only" stuff or not, email Winchester, give them the stock numbers from the boxes, and ask them.

 

[Old Fuff]

Besides the obvious, the more likely problem is not too much power, but too little.

Older .32-20 ammunition apparently was loaded with a powder (type and charge) that could leave a bullet stuck in the bore of a revolver. If not detected the next shot would ruin the barrel. Some believe the cause was that the cartridges were loaded with slower burning rifle powder.

Anyway, if you decide to shoot up those old rounds, shoot once, and be sure you check the bore before you shoot again.

 

[Gordon]

The High Velocity 32-20 I have (in boxes) are clearly marked for rifle use only and I think mention the Model 92 winchester on the box, I'll have to look. I have been told larger frame revolvers like the non black powder SAA and the Army Special are actually safe to shoot such ammo in. I have done that FWIW and they don't seem that hot .

 

[GBExpat]

... But you see, no matter HOW LONG it is, or HOW MANY pistols are chambered in it, 32/20, 38/40 and 44/40 are all rifle rounds. They were introduced in the Winchester 1873 rifle. ...

Moot point. If the ammo were still loaded with black powder as originally designed this issue would not exist.

I have read that there is some of the old commercial "RIFLE" .32-20 ammo that you should not shoot in your period .32-20 pistols, especially the lighter-built pistols like the Police Positive Special (of which I have 2, btw).

Over-pressure is the issue. From what I have read, all of the old pistols are deemed safe into the mid-teens (pressure-wise) but some of the later smokeless RIFLE ONLY loadings are 10K psi or more above that.

 

[The Alaskan]

Moot point. If the ammo were still loaded with black powder as originally designed this issue would not exist.

I have read that there is some of the old commercial "RIFLE" .32-20 ammo that you should not shoot in your period .32-20 pistols, especially the lighter-built pistols like the Police Positive Special (of which I have 2, btw).

Over-pressure is the issue. From what I have read, all of the old pistols are deemed safe into the mid-teens (pressure-wise) but some of the later smokeless RIFLE ONLY loadings are 10K psi or more above that.

Exactly. And that's where my mind is going. I'm thinking I have a box of those. I'd like to find out definitively, and, barring that, I guess I'm pulling projectiles and dumping powder.

 

[Dr.Rob]

I've shot a lot of Ultramax out of my Colt Official Police. It's smoky, but it knocks down steel poppers with authority.