348 Winchester Powder Choice and Why

[98s1lightning]

I'm looking to develop the ideal load for my 20" carbine Browning 71.

The Browning 71 runs a shorter COAL than the Winchester guns, there is record of other users experiencing the same issue.

So, with that being said I am looking for a TEMPERATURE SENSITIVE POWDER, that is FORGIVING IN LARGE FILL/BULKY CASES, good for "SHORT BARREL"

I am open to suggestions.

From what I understand the IMR4895 is a go-to "old reliable" load that is not advertised as TEMPERATURE STABLE

The H4350 I tested seems to be a poor choice in this cartridge

H4895 may be a good choice??? (TEMPERATURE STABLE)

Reason I want temp stable, it could be 0 degress or 60 to 70 degrees when this rifle is in use

 

[98s1lightning]

I am working with a 250gr now for the first time and it really gives some recoil. The heavy recoil kind of worries me that I don't want to be working with a powder that can have big pressure increases with small charge increases.

On the flip side of the the coin a quick look at the 50 Alaskan saami pressure (and other caliber conversions on this same action) are much higher which gives me the thought this action is strong and safe.

My lever was just being slightly sticky when I shot the 250's and H4350. A sign for me to avoid that powder in this cartridge.

 

[98s1lightning]

This is a good read too

https://www.handloadermagazine.com/the-348-winchester

 

[98s1lightning]

Author rates the H-4895 as the best powder choice for the Barnes Original 250gr FP

BUT I will be slightly shorter COAL and powder charge which is OK by Hodgdon because:

from Hodgdon site

"Hodgdon Powder Company has found that H4895 can be loaded to reduced levels. H4895 was chosen because it is the slowest burning propellant that ignites uniformly in reduced charges. To create reduced loads, the 60% formula is recommended.
Find the H4895 load in the Reloading Data Center for your caliber and bullet. Take the maximum H4895 charge listed and multiply by 60% (.6). The load may be adjusted up from there to achieve the desired velocity and accuracy. This works only where H4895 is listed. DO NOT use in a cartridge where H4895 is not shown."


This proves to be a SAFE choice for my needs.

 

[Charlie98]

I think H4895 would be a reasonable choice... reduce by 10% from published start and work up... because of the short Browning chamber. The only other powder I could advise is IMR 4451, which is the same burn rate area as H/IMR4350, but the newer Enduron powder, which is supposed to be temp insensitive.

 

[DocRock]

I am going to pull out Pet Loads and dig up 348Win. I am of the impression, perhaps mistaken, that Waters felt IMR 3031 was the feline's nightclothes, although it does not meet your temp stable requirement. I will revert.

 

[Charlie98]

IMR 3031

That's what I use in my Browning 71, albeit with cast 200's. It has been an exceptionally good powder in that role with my 20" Browning. If I were to load jacketed bullets, I would probably start with IMR3031, but... as I mentioned above, and in the OP's case with temp stability being a goal, H4895 would be a good choice for him. In my experience, H4895 produced higher velocity vs IMR4895 (M1 Garand, .30-06 load) and you are allowed to safely reduce the charge, which may prove useful with the short-chambered Browning.

I may have mentioned this previously... but one of the fixes I've read about is reaming the chamber. If you can't find someone that has a .348 reamer, you can have one made (or the gunsmith can...) and that would fix that problem forever. I was considering it for a while, but then I switched to cast bullets and it became a moot point.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I am going to pull out Pet Loads and dig up 348Win. I am of the impression, perhaps mistaken, that Waters felt IMR 3031 was the feline's nightclothes, although it does not meet your temp stable requirement. I will revert.

That's because 3031 is purrrfect in everything except small bore magnums and tiny cartridges.
That is if you're just looking for accuracy.

 

[DocRock]

So, looked in Pet Loads and I was incorrect in suggesting that Waters gave 3031 any particular distinction. IMR 4064 and 4895 get a lot of coverage, but the article was from 1976, so a much more limited stable of powders available. Seems like H4895 would be the way to go.

 

[98s1lightning]

WOW I CANNOT FIND ANY H4895 POWDER ANYWHERE IN STOCK ON THE NET!!!!!

 

[98s1lightning]

I'm not sure if my 20" "shorter" barrel could use a faster powder???

From accurate shooter burn rate chart

#94 H-4895
#108 VARGET (no experience with this but have some on hand)
#137 H-4831 & H4831SC (wayyy slower than the H-4895)

Your thoughts????

 

[98s1lightning]

Actually it looks as though the H-4831 runs 200-300fps slower with a much higher load density than the H-4895.

Maybe H-4895 IS the powder.
Bring my load up until I get any of the following: pressure signs, sticky lever, untollerable recoil.......then knock it back 1 grain and call that my load, as long as shes accurate.

 

[Charlie98]

My initial handloads with the 200grn Hornady JSP were with H4831. The starting load, as listed in the Hornady book (which I bought specifically for the .348 data...) I though was too hot... sticky lever. Sound familiar? I backed the load off 3grn from start and shot that for a few years until I switched to cast bullets. I don't really know why I started with H4831 in the first place, I must have read somewhere that it produced good accuracy or something; in hindsight it was a stupid choice.

My first cast bullet loads used H4831... and the 20" barrel sounded like an artillery piece going off. I would have to dig back into my records, but a similar charge of IMR3031 produced more velocity, better accuracy, with much less muzzle blast.

 

[98s1lightning]

Ok, I've been reading a lot, forgot 4831 was the powder so shyed away from. Thanks Charlie.

I won't be buying any of that.

 

[98s1lightning]

I read one review on midway, the guy couldn't 4831 because of massive fireball out of barrel....he couldn't deal with it.

 

[Charlie98]

I read one review on midway, the guy couldn't 4831 because of massive fireball out of barrel....he couldn't deal with it.

As I mentioned, my first cast handloads were with H4831. I took them to shoot at a long-range steel shoot up in WY. My friend Jack was next to me shooting his .45-70, and I kept noticing he would stop shooting and back away from the line when I loaded up the 71. I finally asked him why? He said the 71 was so loud, and the concussion so great, it blurred his vision. Needless to say, I parked the 71 while he was shooting thereafter....

 

[stringnut]

My brother used mostly 4064 in the 3 rifles that he had at various times. 4350 was a bit slow with 200 gr bullets. 4831 was way to slow as weather got colder. Erratic velocities and huge fireball. Like would blind you for a couple of seconds just before dark.

 

[GooseGestapo]

What are you using the .348 for?
I only used IMR4350 when I briefly loaded for the .348. This was 30yrs ago when Browning/Miroku made a run of Model ‘71’s and my best friend bought one. IMR4350 was listed as highest velocity powder, and also used in several articles written at the time.
I got advertised accuracy and velocities. No complaints.

It’s a serious short to medium range big game cartridge, not a long range target rifle. I doubt you’ll ever notice a difference between shooting it in 100deg weather, or -0-degree weather with a so-called temp sensitive powder.
Although, if I planned on using it in sub-zero temps, I’d work up the load with a magnum primer to ensure positive ignition. An often overlooked powder that frequently gives outstanding accuracy with decent velocities (though seldom highest) is IMR4320.

A very good substitute/replacement for H4895/Varget is Shooters World Precision Rifle.
Indeed, I would surmise that IMR4831 would be too slow for the .348. But anything from IMR3031 to IMR4350 burning rate will likely work.
BTW; the .348 appears to be a strong candidate for trying LVR.

 

[98s1lightning]

H4895 and Varget are not the same powder are they???


I use it for bear hunting, as early as September first...relatively warm weather. But I carry it around thanksgiving when it could be zero degrees. I use it for walk hunting when I'm looking for the really big bucks up north.

 

[98s1lightning]

I read they are different

 

[98s1lightning]

I shoot the rifle open buckhorn sights, primarily under 100yds, more like 40 from the stand. But I would take a shot up to 200yds if there was a trophy buck at that distance I felt I would never see again...

Gun shoots pretty flat to 200yds. At least with the 200 grainers it does.

 

[Charlie98]

H4895 and Varget are not the same powder are they???

Not at all.

 

[Charlie98]

Gun shoots pretty flat to 200yds. At least with the 200 grainers it does.

With the 250's, I would hold about 4-5" over at 200yds... those flat point bullets aren't the most aerodynamic bullet evarrr...

 

[98s1lightning]

I'm interested in trying the H4831 in my 348 now with some lighter monolithic bullets that weigh in at 160gr.

This is a much slower powder, as far as I know, than the 4895 powders.
Reason I want to try it is It shows good velocities, low pressure, and good accuracy in the book. Even above in that pet load reference page.

Plus I may be able to streamline my loading operations by using the same powder in both my hunting rifles.

 

[Charlie98]

Just FYI... maybe read back through this thread. I didn't think H4831 was a good choice with the 200's, certainly not with a lighter bullet. I still think IMR3031 or one of the 4895's would be a better choice with the 160.