Mr_Flintstone
Member
Anybody shot one of these yet? Is it everything it’s claimed to be? It’s advertised to launch a 150 gr .357 bullet at over 2300 FPS from a bolt gun, and around 2000-2300 FPS from an AR 15 platform.
That was an interesting, and brutally honest, takedown.https://www.chuckhawks.com/win_350_legend.html
. . . ChuckHawks articles are usually well thought-out.
That was an interesting, and brutally honest, takedown.
It's impossible to argue that's even vaguely well thought out.https://www.chuckhawks.com/win_350_legend.html
Here is an article on the 350. ChuckHawks articles are usually well thought-out.
Methinks you didn't read very carefully: Winchester chose to compare to the .243 and .30-30. Chuck spent several paragraphs of the article pointing out how that comparison is poorly chosen, and that Winchester was deceptively selective about the comparative data.Why on earth would you compare this to a 243 or any other bottleneck rifle cartridge?
It is great at what you said. Winchester should have marketed it as a great cartridge for straight wall only or AR platform 35.It's impossible to argue that's even vaguely well thought out.
The .350 Legend is a solution to a very specific problem: hunting in straight wall states with an AR 15 platform. You can debate whether the hunting regs should work that way, but if you want to hunt you have to follow them. Within the context of the problem it's intended for, it is an excellent solution. In order to achieve that, it sacrifices general utility. Everyone with a brain understands that. Comparing .350 Legend to .30-30 or .350 Remington is stupid, because if you could shoot one of those you wouldn't need a .350 Legend. But last I checked the .350 Remington doesn't fit in a AR 15 and isn't a straight wall. So good bad or indifferent you can't use it, and it wouldn't fit in the gun if you could.
you can not use the 223 basic case the 350L is it's own case, big fail for winchester.Just read Chuck Hawks article and it wasn't that controversial. There really wasn't much to disagree with at all.
Quite simply:
Winchester's target market are hunters in "straight wall" states
It's designed to be used in MSR's but isn't 223 compatible in terms of mags or case forming. So brass will be relatively expensive. A person can't even use an unformed "223 Basic" brass from Starline to form 350 Legend.
It's 55,000 psi, headspaces on the case mouth, and has a rebated rim.
At the end of the article, Chuck mentions that there are other similarly designed (older) cartridges but at a much lower psi due to case stretching and that a belt was used for headspace on the "old reliables".
It isn't the "World's Fastest Straight Wall Hunting Cartridge."
Chuck compares it to rifle cartridges because Winchester advertised as a rifle cartridge. He then decimates every piece of recoil, energy ft lbs, and gel test propaganda. His point is that Winchester's advertised data is cherry picked propaganda. (Which everyone kind of knew when it debuted.)
If you live in a straight wall state, what are your choices for rifle hunting? A 357mag or 44mag in a Ruger 77? A single shot like a Contender, Encore, or Handi-rifle in a straight wall caliber with max OAL restrictions? 450 Bushmaster AR? At least 350 Legend gets you further reach in places that have the restrictions with a semi-auto action and a detachable mag, It isn't going to take over hunting markets in unrestricted areas. We all know it's a super niche product. Even the 357MAX guys got excited before they realized the 350 Legend's case dimensions put it in proprietary status. Chuck's just saying that it isn't the greatest ever like Winchester's advertising makes it out to be.
Looks like Winchester tried to tweak the numbers in favor of the 350 so Chuck decided to tweak them against it.
I was all over this round as an AR pistol round for Midwest hunting... Till I found out about proprietary brass and mags. Both were so easy to avoid even if you lost 50-100 FPS but they killed it for me with the brass and mags.
The appeal to me of 300 BO is that it's so compatible with my 5.56 ARs. If only my state allowed 30 caliber pistols to be used for deer I would have jumped in the 300 BO wagon long ago.