.357 load for IDPA ESR

[Pat Cannon]

I'm shooting a revolver in IDPA for the first time this year, a 3" Ruger GP100. I know I could shoot SSR but I'd rather shoot ESR, partly for the realism, and partly because I hate it when the steel poppers don't fall down.

So is there good commercial ammo for that, and what handloads do people use for that? Any other IDPA revolver tips (besides, "don't miss")?

Thanks,
Pat

 

[jmorris]

Most 38spl won’t make SSR power factor (PF), you need to get around +P loadings to make it. Also, poppers have to be calibrated to fall with 125PF ammo per IDPA rules so you shouldn’t have a problem, as long as your ammo is legal. To make ESR PF, a 158grain bullet only needs to travel 1045fps (light for a 357mag). However, ESR was created because of the “unfair” advantage moon clip fed guns have over conventional revolvers. If your goal is to be competitive I would recommend shooting in SSR, if not have at it. You could have your revolver converted to use moon clips, but the conversion is irreversible. Also, IDPA PF favors heavy slow bullets vs. light fast, meaning a 625 chambered in 45 ACP will still have an advantage.

 

[Jim Watson]

I don't have recipes at hand, but when I was shooting a revolver in IPSC, I used a 158 grain roundnose and the starting load (max less 10%) of Blue Dot or VV N105 in .357 Magnum brass to make Major. That ought to work for ESR.

My only revolver specific recommendations are to practice DA, practice with speedloaders (Safariland Comp III or the Jetloader), and practice counting to six so you don't go: "bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, click, curse, reload."

 

[Pat Cannon]

Is a moon clip conversion legal for IDPA? I was sort of assuming there was one of those silly rules whereby it had to be factory.

 

[jmorris]

You can now modify for moon clips but will forever be in ESR (unless you buy another cylinder).

 

[Jim Watson]

IDPA now allows clip conversions for ESR.
A good shop can cut the cylinder and leave some of the rear face at the original level so you can go back to loose ammo and speedloaders for SSR if you want to.

I had a couple of 686s cut for clips. The long skinny cartridges are not held very snugly and do not load as easily as clipped .45s. I sold one and use the other with speedloaders as above.
I note that there is some use of .38 Short Colt in ICORE for faster clip loading. But they operate at low power factors.

 

[jmorris]

Jim,
Do you have any photos or maybe a link to photos of cylinders cut that work with and w/out clips?

 

[ChristopherG]

Pat-

If you're playing to win, shoot .38's in SSR with speedloaders; Jim is dead on right about the .38's in moonclips (with which I, too, have experience).

If you're serious about shooting .357's to train, I'd suggest you still do so in SSR (and have shot with a couple guys who did just that, and pretty well). ESR really is the domain of the 625, and even a moonclipped .357 is going to be at a disadvantage. I mean, you COULD shoot in either SSR oe ESR with your .357's and speedloaders; but if you do it in ESR, you'll get beat reloading, every time. In SSR, you'll just make your rivals look and sound like sissies

I've not worked up a .357 load for IDPA, but if I did it would probly use a rainier 158 gr. bullet and universal clays. Of course, you should take into consideration your carry load, if you're trying to enhance the 'training' value of the game.

 

[Jim Watson]

A cylinder cut for clips is shown at
http://www.moonclips.com/images/M66machining.jpg

The band visible around the outside 1/8" or so of the rear face of the cylinder is uncut and leaves enough surface on the outside edge of the chamber for the cartridge rim to headspace normally without clips. The clearance cut for clips is only on the inside of the chambers and most of the way out through the web between chambers, extractor star included.

 

[jmorris]

Simple and effective, thanks Jim.

 

[Pat Cannon]

Thanks!

...for the all the excellent info everybody! When I show up at a match I will almost sound like I know what I'm doing.

 

[SR_]

To be legal, the ammo must meet power factor from the longest barrel in your division - so if it makes PF from a 4" GP100 your legal. But, as you say, you can have some fun with some poppers.

I've tested the following in a 686 - did not test in my GP100.

4.0gr titegroup with the 158gr Bear Creek molly bullet
4.4gr titegroup with the 158gr berry plated bullet

For the same reason you mentioned - I loaded 4.6gr tightgroup with 158gr berry for the recent S&W match.

Hope this gives you a place to start.

 

[richardschennberg]

If Safariland makes Comp-3 speedloaders for your gun, a little practice will get you more speed than full-moons. Also, you will be able to shoot 165 PF .357 Magnum for ESR, and any ammo down to 125 PF .38 Special for SSR.
Richard
Schennberg.com