.357 Mag 200 gr bullet load with 2400

[LaneP]

Wondering if anyone has worked up a 200 gr bullet load with Alliant 2400 in .357 Magnum. The specific bullet is the Lee C358-200-RF, which I just got in. The heaviest bullet on the Alliant site uses a 170 gr GDSP and 14.5 gr 2400.


I have plenty of 2400 and would like to see if I can comfortably hit somewhere around 1000 fps out of a 7" 686, which I believe should be doable. I won't get a chance to cast till tomorrow and afterward will see if this bullet will fit the cylinder at the crimp groove or if I'll have to go deeper.

I have an idea where I might start pending any data (I'm not finding much of anything for 200 gr bullets and 2400 on web searches), but looking to see if any of you have anything to share.



Thanks all and have a great day.

 

[twistytorn]

I've never tried anything over 180 in a .357 magnum, but Lee lists a 2400 load for 200 grain lead bullets--10 grain MAX@ 1.575 32.8 ksi and 1245fps.

Seems like you should be able to get your 1000fps out of a 7" barrel.

 

[LaneP]

I've never tried anything over 180 in a .357 magnum, but Lee lists a 2400 load for 200 grain lead bullets--10 grain MAX@ 1.575 32.8 ksi and 1245fps.

Seems like you should be able to get your 1000fps out of a 7" barrel.

Outstanding, thank you. It never occurred to look up the Lee data, I appreciate it.

 

[Palladan44]

Sounds interesting. I've wondered the same myself.
Let us know how you do on this.

My experience with 180 gr Missouri Hard cast "pug nose" is a positive one, using 2400. Surprisingly low on the "boom" and recoil far less snappy and more of a slow roll than lighter bullets with more powder.

 

[LaneP]

Sounds interesting. I've wondered the same myself.
Let us know how you do on this.

My experience with 180 gr Missouri Hard cast "pug nose" is a positive one, using 2400. Surprisingly low on the "boom" and recoil far less snappy and more of a slow roll than lighter bullets with more powder.

Absolutely. My plan is to chrono 9 gr, 9.5 gr and finally 10 gr and I'll get the velocity numbers posted.

Probably won't be able to hit the range till middle of next week. Can't wait.

 

[bluejay75]

I bought and use 2 of these molds. I went all the way to 11.2 2400. These bullets shoot very well without gas checks. When you size them you almost can’t tell it’s a GC bullet. Lil gun and H110 shot better though. Not my video but it’s a good showing of the capability of this bullet.

What they look like powder coated clear and collet crimped:

 

[AJC1]

They have loads in the lyman 45th.

 

[WestKentucky]

That’s the bullet I want for 357 Herrett. Only reason I haven’t jumped yet is that I haven’t stumbled across gas checks.

 

[bluejay75]

I actually liked this bullet so much that I asked Bob Kell to clone the Lee instead of the original RCBS design that was 15 grains heavier. It is now in the MP molds inventory. He has cut it three times and it always sells out in a day or two. You can get that one as a plain base AND hollow point. So if you can find it in stock it will have roughly the same bearing surface as the Lee.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sh...S-Clone-35-Remington-358-Winchester-Group-Buy

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Yes, I use the Cast Performance WFN-GC 200gr. in .357 Mag and Max. I use a compromise load of 10.5gr. of 2400 in .357Magnum with a small rifle primer. That's a good 50 yard hunting load for my 6-1/2" Ruger Blackhawk, 6" Colt 3-5-7, and really nice in the 10" T/C Contender. In .357Maximum with a small rifle primer, that gets bumped up to 13.5gr. of 2400 or IMR 4227 for my Handi-Rifle.

The reason I say it's a compromise is, it compromises accuracy for range a little bit: the Contender is most accurate at longer ranges and with a hotter load can get me close to 75 yards; but, it does almost as well with a medium load out to 50, and with 12gr of IMR 4227 is a full 100 yard cartridge*, while the Ruger is more accurate at closer to 25 yards with a moderate load and since that's where I use it most, that's what I load. The Colt likes something in-between and is good for 50 yards all day but I never take it out hunting because it's just too nice for the humidity and sweat. I do take my 4" Lawman hunting - a lot! - but not with that load - needs more cowbell. For the shorter barrel I use 5.5gr of Unique and stay inside "The Red Zone" (20 yard line).

I started out using Lyman's data and increased gradually .2-.4 until I got a load all three handguns approved.

*NB: I am NOT a 100 yard handgun hunter anymore. Too many shakes and my eyes have gone bad. 20 yards is sufficient.

 

[PapaG]

I have shot quite a few 200s out of several 357 revolvers and my 92 Winchester. I used the RCBS 38-200RN designed for the 35 Rem. Didn't use 2400. No reason not to. You have me fired up to load some for the 92. I used Unique. They moved pins off the table smartly unless you were too far off center

 

[AJC1]

I load 180s with gas checks and so far seeing the gas check in the loaded round is no problem. You may not like the look. A max load of 4227 is my current best load but being a 6" at the top was where it started to burn clean. Lots of unburned powder at the starting charges. I only own a 4" pistol so I'll wait to go further that direction when I get my dads carbine. I have a pound of 2400 and need to test with it. Update us with your progress pls.

 

[LaneP]

Great info from everyone, really appreciate the knowledge shared. I have cast up enough to test. The mold worked well and it didn't take long to cast perfect bullets. The bullets accepted the Hornady .35 cal gas checks perfectly with good fit. I hadn't used my RCBS lubrisizer in a while and it was still loaded with Lyman Ideal lube, so I went ahead and ran with it. It's a soft lube and a little on the messy side, but it's been around for a long time.

The bullets were cast in #2 alloy, commercially sold as "hardball". After size, lube and gas checks, 6 random bullets weighed approx. 201 gr, with only a few tenths of a grain weight spread, and excellent degree of uniformity.



Built a dummy test cartridge to test fit in my S&W 686. My cylinder measures 1.630" in end to end, so as soon as I seated the bullet to the crimp groove I knew it would have to go deeper to fit.



After running the bullet past the front driving band I ended up with an acceptable fit at a COL of 1.660".



Now it's a matter of waiting till next Thursday to get to the range to test three different charge weights (next opportunity I have to go). Really looking forward to lobbing these downrange. Once again thanks to all for great info and I'll post up some range results afterward.

 

[bluejay75]

What load range did you settle on?

 

[LaneP]

What load range did you settle on?

Plan to test 9, 9.5 and 10 gr of Alliant 2400.

 

[AJC1]

Great info from everyone, really appreciate the knowledge shared. I have cast up enough to test. The mold worked well and it didn't take long to cast perfect bullets. The bullets accepted the Hornady .35 cal gas checks perfectly with good fit. I hadn't used my RCBS lubrisizer in a while and it was still loaded with Lyman Ideal lube, so I went ahead and ran with it. It's a soft lube and a little on the messy side, but it's been around for a long time.

The bullets were cast in #2 alloy, commercially sold as "hardball". After size, lube and gas checks, 6 random bullets weighed approx. 201 gr, with only a few tenths of a grain weight spread, and excellent degree of uniformity.

View attachment 1024369

Built a dummy test cartridge to test fit in my S&W 686. My cylinder measures 1.630" in end to end, so as soon as I seated the bullet to the crimp groove I knew it would have to go deeper to fit.

View attachment 1024370

After running the bullet past the front driving band I ended up with an acceptable fit at a COL of 1.660".

View attachment 1024371

Now it's a matter of waiting till next Thursday to get to the range to test three different charge weights (next opportunity I have to go). Really looking forward to lobbing these downrange. Once again thanks to all for great info and I'll post up some range results afterward.

View attachment 1024372

Sami spec is 1.590 and I usually load 1.585. Your crimp and neck tension will either hold or not and that's the real test here imo.

 

[LaneP]

Well the results for the Lee C358-200-RF loads are in. I was dodging downpours this morning and thought I was going to get rained out, but caught a break when the rain went to a drizzle. Because of the rain, I changed up my plans, and instead of shooting an individual group for each load, dumped all of them through the ProChrono DLX at the same target before the next deluge commensed.

Because I was also shooting these in a 6-inch bbl Ruger Security Six, I had to adjust COL to 1.650" to accommodate the slightly shorter cylinder of the Ruger. As expected, no issues with bullet pulling. Recoil was nothing from the heavy 7-inch bbl 686 and a bit more brisk from the slimmer, lighter Security Six as charge weight increased, but still very manageable in my view.

There were no pressure issues at all, all cases ejected freely.



Now for the surprises. I have heard people say Ruger revolvers are "fast", and I observed this today. I know, next question, "What's the b/c gap on these two??" Well the Ruger is .005" and the 686 is .009". If you're a velocity junkie, b/c gap matters. The Ruger SS with 1-inch less bbl drove bullets approximately 40 fps faster with every load.

The same components used for all 3 loads, the only variation being the charge weight:

Lee C358-200-RF, #2 alloy
Hornady .35 gas check
Lyman Ideal lube
Starline case (new)
CCI 500 primer
COL 1.650"
Moderate roll crimp

I was hoping to hit 1000 fps with at least one of the loads and I did that right out of the gate with 9 gr 2400.

9.0 gr 2400
7" S&W 686 - 1024 fps
6" Ruger SS - 1067 fps

9.5 gr 2400
7" S&W 686 - 1040 fps
6" Ruger SS - 1088 fps

10.0 gr 2400
7" S&W 686 - 1083 fps
6" Ruger SS - 1123 fps

Not only did the Security Six outspeed the 686, it had tighter SD's. On the 10 gr load, SD for the Ruger was only 9 fps, while it jumped to 26 fps for the 686.

Unfortunately the rain interfered with grouping tests, but uniformly I consider this load "very accurate" in these two pistols. Group center was approximately 5" above POA at 25 yds. I'm not a match shooter, but I am confident this load in these guns will easily outshoot me.

Last thing: Lyman Ideal lube on a lead bullet with 2400 is a dirty combo, reminded me a little of shooting BP. But I'm good with that if performance is where I want it. In this case it is. And I'm used to shooting alot of BP

 

[bluejay75]

Excellent results. Would you consider going higher? Powder coat will clean up your shooting considerably and make the shots less smoky.

 

[LaneP]

Excellent results. Would you consider going higher? Powder coat will clean up your shooting considerably and make the shots less smoky.

It's possible, because I have seen a posted load from John Taffin going all the way up to 12.0 gr 2400 under a 200 gr NEI GC bullet for 1180 fps from a 10" Blackhawk. But I'm pretty happy with the 10 gr performance as it is.

I know what you mean on the powder coating. I'm tempted to empty my sizer of the Lyman Ideal and try the Orange Magic. I used to use the hard lubes (that need a lube heater) like Thompson's Blue Angel on everything, then read Veral Smith say, "If your lube is like a crayon, that's all it's good for", haha. Well we know how he feels about that anyway.

But you bring up a good idea and something I may get into down the road for sure.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

It's possible, because I have seen a posted load from John Taffin going all the way up to 12.0 gr 2400 under a 200 gr NEI GC bullet for 1180 fps from a 10" Blackhawk. But I'm pretty happy with the 10 gr performance as it is.

I know what you mean on the powder coating. I'm tempted to empty my sizer of the Lyman Ideal and try the Orange Magic. I used to use the hard lubes (that need a lube heater) like Thompson's Blue Angel on everything, then read Veral Smith say, "If your lube is like a crayon, that's all it's good for", haha. Well we know how he feels about that anyway.

But you bring up a good idea and something I may get into down the road for sure.

I consider 10.5gr. "moderate."

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Well the results for the Lee C358-200-RF loads are in. I was dodging downpours this morning and thought I was going to get rained out, but caught a break when the rain went to a drizzle. Because of the rain, I changed up my plans, and instead of shooting an individual group for each load, dumped all of them through the ProChrono DLX at the same target before the next deluge commensed.

Because I was also shooting these in a 6-inch bbl Ruger Security Six, I had to adjust COL to 1.650" to accommodate the slightly shorter cylinder of the Ruger. As expected, no issues with bullet pulling. Recoil was nothing from the heavy 7-inch bbl 686 and a bit more brisk from the slimmer, lighter Security Six as charge weight increased, but still very manageable in my view.

There were no pressure issues at all, all cases ejected freely.

View attachment 1025869

Now for the surprises. I have heard people say Ruger revolvers are "fast", and I observed this today. I know, next question, "What's the b/c gap on these two??" Well the Ruger is .005" and the 686 is .009". If you're a velocity junkie, b/c gap matters. The Ruger SS with 1-inch less bbl drove bullets approximately 40 fps faster with every load.

The same components used for all 3 loads, the only variation being the charge weight:

Lee C358-200-RF, #2 alloy
Hornady .35 gas check
Lyman Ideal lube
Starline case (new)
CCI 500 primer
COL 1.650"
Moderate roll crimp

I was hoping to hit 1000 fps with at least one of the loads and I did that right out of the gate with 9 gr 2400.

9.0 gr 2400
7" S&W 686 - 1024 fps
6" Ruger SS - 1067 fps

9.5 gr 2400
7" S&W 686 - 1040 fps
6" Ruger SS - 1088 fps

10.0 gr 2400
7" S&W 686 - 1083 fps
6" Ruger SS - 1123 fps

Not only did the Security Six outspeed the 686, it had tighter SD's. On the 10 gr load, SD for the Ruger was only 9 fps, while it jumped to 26 fps for the 686.

Unfortunately the rain interfered with grouping tests, but uniformly I consider this load "very accurate" in these two pistols. Group center was approximately 5" above POA at 25 yds. I'm not a match shooter, but I am confident this load in these guns will easily outshoot me.

Last thing: Lyman Ideal lube on a lead bullet with 2400 is a dirty combo, reminded me a little of shooting BP. But I'm good with that if performance is where I want it. In this case it is. And I'm used to shooting alot of BP

View attachment 1025870

Sweet! Nice shooting. The Cast Performance bullets I buy are lubed with something that's not too smoky so I can't complain. Always go GC with that kind of bullet, though.

 

[LaneP]

I consider 10.5gr. "moderate."

I agree. There was a noticeable jump in consistency at 10 gr. 10.5 may be my next outing.

 

[bluejay75]

https://www.eastwood.com/hotcoat-powder-full-gloss-clear.html

Get a pound and you will thank me later. You won’t need bbs or any of that other stuff guys use to coat.

 

[AJC1]

https://www.eastwood.com/hotcoat-powder-full-gloss-clear.html

Get a pound and you will thank me later. You won’t need bbs or any of that other stuff guys use to coat.

I think the container makes a huge difference. Both of my shaker containers are square and clear. I can check the recycling number when I get home if that matters.