.357 magnum with H110 WMSP primer loads

[Special_K]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published MINIMUM for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.
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*phew* Now that that is out of the way...

I just got into loading for .357 magnum. I started with a load of 15.1 grains of H110. I went out to try my new loads and boy were they powerful. It seems as if the starting load for .357 has more power than the federal gold dots that I use for a personal defense load!

My question is; Can I go below minimum load data with H110? The bullet I am using currently is a Missouri Bullet 158 Grain "Action" bullet. I would like something in recoil range of a mid-hot .38 special load. The revolver that is shooting it a Ruger SP-101 2.25" barrel.


Thanks,
Special_k

 

[ArchAngelCD]

H110/W296 should NEVER be loaded below the minimum recommended starting load. If the Max charge is the only number you are provided don't charge any lower than 6% below the Max charge.

If you want a lighter Magnum round try using 2400 which can be downloaded safely. If that's still too hot for you try a powder in the middle burn rate range like HS-6 or Blue Dot.

BTW, Federal Gold Dot ammo??? Do you mean Speer Gold Dot ammo? If it is Speer Gold Dot ammo is it the Short Barrel .357 Magnum ammo? If so that's why you think the ammo you built was too hot. That Speer ammo is light and generates only about 1,000 fps.

 

[Matt3357]

I am by no means an expert, but when I asked about H110 I was told it was very bad to go below or above the limits. It's not very forgiving. I am loading h110 beneath 170 gr SWC and 158gr XTP's with good results, but I have heard if you go below it could result in squib loads with the bullet not leaving the barrel, potentially hurting you or the gun or both. If you want to load mid range loads, I have been recommended 2400 because it can be loaded down to mid range loads safely.

Matt

 

[Matt3357]

dang, I guess there are other people up as late as me...

 

[fprefect]

H110 357 loads

H110 and W296 (same powder manufactured by Hodgdon for Winchester) is the powder that will produce the highest velocity loads in almost all 357 revolvers. The two previous posts have pretty much answered your question and you would do well to heed their advice.

The reason why reduced loads can sometimes be dangerous using H110 is that too achieve uniform ignition, the case needs to be full, or nearly full. The lowest charge of H110 I use in a 6" barreled 357 with a 125 gr JHP bullet is 18.5 grains and I have worked up to as high as 22grs (which is 1 gr below Hodgdon's max recommended load) with no signs of excessive pressure, but your results may vary. The only problem I see using these weights of H110 in your revolver is the short barrel. 110 is a very slow burning powder which was originally manufactured for the 30 cal carbine rifle and using it with a 2 inch barrel is going to produce a very pronounced muzzle blast and flash. It's not in the least bit dangerous, but it can become uncomfortable to some shooters. It can be a real "flame thrower". If this is not a problem, H110 should give you good results, but if you don't mind giving up 75fps or so in muzzle vel., you might find a slightly faster burning powder such as Blue Dot or 2400 to be a better choice.

F. Prefect

 

[GP100man]

low range -mid range is best served by fast burnin powders (cleaner at lower pressures)
look at hodgdons site at "clays" it`s a hi energy, low density ,position insensitive powder .
my plinkers are from 3.0 grs. up to 4.0 grs.
save your h-110 for magnum full bore loadings.

 

[Special_K]

Wow, thats a huge shift from the 15.1 Grain start load with H110. I'm actually planning on doing some penetration testing today with it and if it out performs my self defense ammunition I very well may switch to my own H110 loads for carry.

How well will Clay's meter? We have a RCBS powder drop and H110 meters wonderfully so it would be nice if that would continue.

 

[cougar1717]

When I worked up a 357 magnum load using H110 and 125gr. Hornady XTP, I started too low (about 13% below maximum). My results were: very inconsistent ignition, a target that looked more like a pattern than a group, and a hangfire. H110 is finicky and should be used for full house loads only. It is not a "best of both worlds" powder. It will give maximum velocity, but I don't recommend downloading it. If you would like to shoot reduced loads, that are hotter than 38 special loadings, I would recommend Universal clays or similar powder.

 

[243winxb]

From Hodgdons website

H110 and Winchester 296 loads should not be reduced more than 3%.

Reduce H110 and Winchester 296 loads 3% and work up from there. H110 and Winchester 296 if reduced too much will cause inconsistent ignition. In some cases it will lodge a bullet in the barrel, causing a hazardous situation (Barrel Obstruction). This may cause severe personal injury or death to users or bystanders. DO NOT REDUCE H110 LOADS BY MORE THAN 3%.

Alliant 2400 is a better powder for the 357 mag. But for midrange, Unique is even better.

 

[something vague]

Alliant 2400 is a better powder for the 357 mag.

That is a subjective statement. In same cases I would agree with you but in others I don't. It depends on what you want out of your load. I love 2400 in the .357 as it is very versatile. Good for full house loads and great for target loads. But IMO there is no other powder out there that can compare to H110 in the .357mag for full house tack driving loads. On the upper end of the charge weight my H110 loads absolutely BARK! They are devastating, but can also be devastating to me when shot out of my SP101. But out of my Blackhawk they are my load of choice when something extremely powerful may be needed. If I have any concerns that while I'm in the woods that I might roll up on a Maine Black Bear I carry my Blackhawk with H110 loads in it. Otherwise I carry my SP101 with 2400 loads in it.

 

[billybob44]

Hand loads for carry??

SPECIAL K-I load several very good loads, in .357, .44 Rem.Mag., and .45acp., BUT I will NOT carry my hand loads for SD. That provides too much fodder for a dirt-bag lawyer, if I have to shoot his client. Been told by several LEO's to NOT carry hand loads for SD.

 

[GP100man]

i`ve treated my measures & keep em treated with powdered graphite, no problems with flow, variation (within reason) , & no static .
i mainly use lee powder thru die & the autodisc for revolver rounds & a uniflo, an old herters& a lyman 55 according to rifle powder & some ya just gotta throw lite & trickle the rest .

on 2400 , that was the factorys first powder for the 357 magnum& is still used today ,but not exclucively & is the only powder i use a magnum primer for.

 

[Special_K]

Billy Bob....I have a long story about being Detained about "police" in minnesota (where I live) and told that open carry is illegal. It isn't. They treated me like a criminal for open carring my revolver and frankly in my opinion all police are to be treated like unknowing heathen until they prove me wrong one by one.

I'm not concerned about it, if I ever actually have to perform a defensive shoot I'm sure I will have much bigger problems.


But, thats a story for a different time.



How did you treat your powder measures with graphite GP100?

 

[fprefect]

H110 loads

I did some additional reading after my above post and it seems that even the 18.5 gr load that I use as a starting load can on occasion produce problems with a 125 gr jacketed bullet. This is one case where a little communication between the bullet and powder manufactures could prevent the destruction of a $700 revolver and possible injury to the shooter.

If you check Hodgdon's starting and maximum loads for a 125 gr JHP you will see that it has a very narrow range. 21 gr. starting, 22 gr. maximum. But should you use the Sierra or Hornady reloading manual they show minimum loads in the 16 gr range with maximums of approx 21. Speer on the other hand is much closer to Hodgdon's date (19.7 - 20.7). Apparently what can happen when using H110 with the 125gr JHP with less than a full case of powder, on rare occasions when the powder charge has shifted all the way to the front of case leaving a space between the primer and powder and the primer fails to provide a good uniform ignition, the bullet can briefly become stuck in the forcing cone of the barrel, sealing the gap between the cylinder and barrel, and thus setting the stage for a very rapid and large spike in pressures sufficient to destroy the cylinder and frame.

However, why this does not occur using less than full case charges of H110 with much heavier 158 and 180 gr. lead bullets was not explained in the material that I read and has got me puzzled. But just to stay on the safe side when loading 125 gr jacketed bullets, I think I'll keep my loads in the 20 - 22 gr. range and use plenty of hearing protection rather than run the risk of creating a grenade.

I might add that this is not a load I routinely blast away with at the range. Muzzle blast and recoil are substantial for a 357 magnum and I expect heavy use might even shorten the useful accuracy life of the revolver as well. I use it only for hunting small game under 75 yards and personal defense. I much prefer 6 to 8 grains of Unique at the range. It seems to produce good accuracy with a wide range of bullets with far less noise and recoil.

F. Prefect

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have used a lot of W296/H110 for .357 Magnum rounds. I've moved away from it somewhat lately because I'm getting too old to beat myself up.

These are the powders I use for my .357 Magnum handloads.
-125gr Hornady XTP, 2400
-125gr LRNFP bullets, W231/HP-38
-140gr Hornady XTP, HS-6, Longshot, 2400
-158gr JSP bullets, W296 for my Carbine. (less felt recoil in the Carbine)
-158gr JSP bullets, 2400 for my revolvers because it can be slightly downloaded safely.
-158gr LSWC bullets, HS-6, W231/HP-38
-180gr jacketed and lead GC bullets, Lil'Gun

 

[Walkalong]

I'm getting too old to beat myself up.

Me too, and I have never liked full loads of 125 Gr ammo, even in my youth.

I would like something in recoil range of a mid-hot .38 special load.

A little hotter than that, but 9.1 Grs of N340 and a 125 Gr jacketed bullet shoots like a laser, is super clean, and is much easier on the shooter. 9.2 Grs N340 and a 110 Gr jacketed bullet is very good as well. Haven't worked out the 140 or 158s.

A little lighter than that, but 4.0 Grs Clays and a 125 Gr plated bullet (or 3.3 and a 158) is very mild, very accurate, & very clean. Very pleasant to shoot, even from a light .357, such as the Model 19, or a Security Six.

Stepping up from that go with AA #2 and 158 Gr bullets, but I haven't finalized that one. 5.1 Grs and a 140 Gr bullet shows much promise, as does 4.9 Grs and a 158 Gr bullet.

Use these loads at your own risk. They are safe in my guns using my load technique. Start low and work up.