357 Sig set up issues..

[Bob72]

First off, Found out that the expander plug/collet/? was for a 45cal not 357 Sig and crushed about ten cases before tearing it apart and finding the problem. Wrote Lee and they agreed I had the wrong part and are putting one in the mail today. Wow.. talk about customer service..

Turns out the expander plug is the same as the 9mm one so I took it out of the nine die and put it in the powder through expander die in the 357. in an attempt to set up the turret.
The decrimper re-sizer seems to be set up and working. The powder through die is setting the flare to high and when I attempt to reduce it, getting erratic results. Think it may be about right but it is very brand specific. Different case, dif results.

Bullet seating die gives erratic results. Think I am going to have to set it as close to min col of 1.140 (I keep ending up with 1.138,1.139,1.136) and adjust load down a bit. Going to use AA#9 as suggested by some others on this board. Factory ammo that I have has col's well below that but...who knows what powder they use? Thinking it through? Perhaps I should load at 1.142 - 1.145 col as long as it clears the mag should be okay? comment on that anyone?

Am having lots of trouble trying to set the correct crimp. The bullet seating die will set a crimp as well as the Factory die. (am using both). The bullets that I have dummied up don't stand a lot of pressure. (falls into case at about 35lbs of pressure.) can't seem to get it right. When I increase it I get a cannelure. The AA#9 powder should help. Will be using about 11.9 -12 grains starting point. My other option is Ram Silhouette at 7.9 - 8.1 gr. Ram powder burned really dirty in my 9mm. I still don't know if the MTG bullet is a hard jacketed or soft jacket bullet. I understand that you should not put a hard crimp on a hard jacket bullet.

I have about 500 Hrndy 125 gr HAP (.356) bullets and no info on loads..at all. .If anyone has this information please provide. Will be grateful forever.

 

[JimKirk]

I bet that if you email Hornady... they'll tell you the same thing they told me....just to use data for the XTP bullets...

 

[hAkron]

I had problems with the Lee seater die seating my 357 Sig bullets crooked. I use a Redding competition seater and a lee FCD. Make sure you use a powder that mostly fills the case (I like Blue Dot). Do a push test on your completed rounds to verify that won't set back when the chamber. I push them into the edge of my bench top.

 

[Striker Fired]

For your starting load 11.9gr is kind of hot, Start at 10.9 to11.2 AA#9. Hornady doesn't list AA#9 in their books, but other manuals have it for other 124/125gr bullets. You can use data from other bullets, as long as they are the same weight.You just have to look at the seating depth of that bullet(how far into the case the bullet is) and repeat the depth with the other bullet (this is not the same as oal), then make sure it cycles in your gun. This is one of those areas of reloading that is the most important to understand ,so a person can load safe rounds. It is what will allow you to know how case volume and seating depth work together to achieve safe chamber pressures.

 

[Bob72]

I bet that if you email Hornady... they'll tell you the same thing they told me....just to use data for the XTP bullets...

I did Email Hornady. They told me they had no load data for the HAP bullet in the 9mm or the Sig 357. In fact, they said the bullet was developed for the 38 Super. I wouldn't load the HAP like a XTP anyway as the HAP bullet is considerably longer and would diminish case capacity to a dangerous degree. (At least from what I find in the Lee book.) Seems like Hornady should get their act together before the kill off some loaders.

 

[Bovice]

For the crimp, stick with the factory crimp die. People on here will state again and again that it's unnecessary. As you know, it's very easy to crimp too much with the bullet seating die and you end up with a roll crimp and not a taper crimp. I prefer to avoid that headache altogether and use a factory crimp die. It offers full-length resizing, which would be great for the .357 SIG and its operating pressure.

I've shot a lot of montana gold bullets and they seem like they are hard jacketed.

I know that the load data for your HAP bullets isn't listed. What I would do is load the bullets into the cases at the specified SAAMI maximum length. This is listed as being 1.140. To avoid going over, I would set the dies to seat at 1.135 to allow for variances from case to case, and it will make certain that the rounds feed in a standard .357SIG chamber. Loading too long is also a bad thing, I've seen it cause squibs in 9mm's running near max charges.

Load using the XTP data, start at the low end of the charge weight. Make a batch of 25. Chronograph these rounds, and compare them to the velocities that the load data says they should be (if they were XTPs of the same weight). If the velocities are too low, seat the bullets deeper by 0.005" and re-chronograph them. When you are matching the velocities in the load data, you will know that you're working at the pressure specified in the manual for that powder/bullet weight. That seating length is the one you should keep so that the data is valid for your bullet choice. From there, increase your charge weight until you get the velocity that YOU want.

It's a lot of trial and error, but at least doing things that way won't be a deadly or expensive error. If you don't have a chronograph, you need to get one. It's an essential tool for reloading.

 

[Scimmia]

What's the problem with getting a cannelure? The bottleneck pistol FCD is setup like the rifle FCD in that it does no post sizing and crimps with a collet. 357 SIG can supposidly headspace off either the mouth of the case or the shoulder, so as long as you're headspacing off the shoulder, you can bury the case rim in the bullet if you need to as long as it doesn't deform the bullet.

On the flaring problems, have you measured the case lenghts? You said it's brand specific, if one brand is a lot longer than the other, you'll need to adjust the flaring die between brands or trim the longer one.

 

[CollinLeon]

When I started reloading for .357SIG, my reloads just didn't look that great... I suspected that it was the fact that the bullet is being seated and the neck rolled / crimped in the same operation. I ordered off for the Lee Factory Crimp Die and figured that I could seat the bullet without the crimp in stage 3 and do the actual crimp separately in stage 4. I haven't reloaded for that caliber since getting the Lee Factory Crimp Die, so I don't know if my assumption is correct or not. I just didn't like the idea of doing the bullet seating and the crimping in the same operation. It just seemed to me that you would be reducing the neck diameter at the same time that you are pushing the bullet further down into the brass and that this might be the reason for the lead shavings that I was seeing on my finished ammo. It also seemed like this might be the reason that I was getting crumpled brass since the crimp had already occurred even before the bullet was completely seated, thus the pushing of the bullet further down just resulted in crushing the brass.

I much prefer reloading for large straight walled cases (e.g. .45ACP, .357 mag). I suspect that the .45-70 will be even easier to load for (still waiting on my dies and bullet molds for it)...

 

[Bovice]

http://www.shootforum.com/forum/bulletdb.html

Try that link. It has a bunch of specs for a bunch of bullets, maybe it can help you find something similar to your bullets to draw a comparison from if it eases your mind.

 

[Striker Fired]

The 125gr HAPS will work in the Sig,I and many others shoot them.It may have been designed for the 38 but that doesn't mean it won't work in other rounds.The biggest concern with using a particular bullet in the Sig is the flat (bearing)surface has to stick out past the case mouth.It does,so it can be used.I double checked my records and see that I load them to 1.122 oal.That is what you will have to load them to also because this bullets flat requires it.load one in a dummie round,I am sure it will fit your gun.
I run .5gr less powder in these than my normal load because they are seated a little deeper.(it may not be neccesary because I'm not near max as it is).
For crimping I have a Dillon crimp die and it works good for me.I also only use one h/s on this round so I don't have any problems with different neck tensions. I wouldn't use R-P brass for reloading the SIG.Only Win,Speer(what I use),or newer Fed.

 

[JimKirk]

Good luck with whatever you decide to do... I wish that Hornady would either say this bullet is not for the 357 SIG OR provide some data... other makers will with some of their bullets.

 

[Renigeid]

Bob72, If it were me, I would build up eight or nine dummy rounds as follows.

1. lube and resize the brass. press in a fired primer to hold the powder while belling,
which should be so slight so as not to notice it.

2. Empty out the powder deposited and rotate to the bullet seating station.

3. Back the seating and resizing die out so as to prevent any crimping when seating the
bullet.

4. Place a bullet on the brass and press up into the bullet seating die.
Adjust the bullet seating stem in increments until an OAL of 1.140" is attained.

5. Rotate to your crimping die and adjust the crimp just enough that you can feel the
resistance when going through the crimping motion.

6. Using a black marks-a-lot number each round as 1 thru whatever.

7 Mic each round and record the measurment.

8. Load a mag and begin racking each round through the cycle very fast. Catch the
rounds in something soft so as not to hit the projectile on something that would
change the recorded dimensions. Do this for all rounds.

9 Mic each round in the same area and manner as before and record.

10 Repeat the above steps for all rounds.

11 If after five to seven cycles any projectile achieves "push back" exceeding a tot of
.004 or .005 then you should go back to your crimping die and make a MINOR
adjustment until you are experiencing no "push back" beyond a total of .003 tot for
each of your rounds. Once you have the crimp correct most of your test bullets should have little or no push
back.

I have found that even factory bullets will begin to push back after three or four cycles. Therefore it is best to
always mic even a factory bullet if it has been chambered prior to rechambering.


Works for me. Of course, if you change bullet styles or use different brass..............

Seems like a lot of work? Not for peace of mind when you are blasting away.

I have noticed that when loading on a progressive that you may have to make a slight
adjustment when using each station in the progressive as it can then be a little
different than when seting up a single bullet OAL. The OAL may vary.

Use AA#9 for complete peace of mind.

BTW, I stopped using the "scale" system as found it wasn't as accurate
as thought by some folks. But....to each his own.

I also suspect from your post that you are loading lead and thus getting the sliver.
Perhaps just a slight more "bell" would prevent this as the lead bullet is probably
.001 larger than brass. Just a thought. Still..........loading brass i perfer not to bell
all all if I can help it.


Just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions.....................Jim