Help with 125 Gr Hrndy HAP and XTP in 357 Sig

[Bob72]

Have all my equipment and would like to start loading 357 Sig. I have 125gr MTG, 125 Gr Hrndy HAP and XTP bullets but...can't find any loading data for use with Ramshot Silhouette powder. (Using Federal SP Match primers)

From Lee's I see that they( HAP + XTP) seat deeper and increase pressure. That said. Does anyone have data for COL and load data for this powder bullet combinations? I have written Lee, (no info), Western Powder (no reply), Ramshot and no reply...I was unable to even find Hrndy and MTG bullets in the Ramshot data. Seems they are popular enough that some powder company would have data .. Maybe I picked a wrong powder choice.

I recently loaded some 9mm with the MTG bullets using 4.3gr and a COL of 1.100 down to 1.089...Cycled then through the 9mm and checked for pushback. There was .001 on one round after three cycles. These will not be any type of carry rounds, so they won't be cycled again.

So before I go to the range to shoot the 9mm, any comments and help from the experts? I know that some of you develop your own tables after years of doing this.

 

[rcmodel]

Need Ramshot data?
How about Ramshot?
http://www.ramshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/ramshot_handgun_rifle.pdf

Hornady #6 shows a 124 grain XTP OAL of 1.140".
My manual doesn't list the 125 grain HAP.

Some 9mm bullets are too long to work in the .357 SIG due to the very short case neck and 1.114" MAX OAL limit of the gun & magazine..
If you seat a 9mm bullet with a long ogive that short, the ogive is inside the case and you have no neck tension to prevent set-back.

rc

 

[Bovice]

I would start with this, from the ramshot link that rcmodel posted.

Silhouette 125 SIE JHP

START 7.9 (grains) 1,261 fps
MAX 8.3 (grains) 1,320 fps
1.140" OAL

Not the same bullet, but it's the same weight. Look at the profile of your bullet and seat it accordingly. Also look up the SAAMI max OAL. Make sure you don't go over that. Loading too long will drop your pressures and can give you a squib.

Not the same caliber, but it can be fired in the same platform as a .357SIG. For my .40 reloads, I copy the specs for a 165 gr Sierra JHP for loading my 165 montana gold FMJs. It works fine. Something to consider maybe?

 

[Bob72]

357 and XTP/HAP bullets

Bovice: Thanks for your input. I am pretty sure that your info on the MTG will work as a comparative bullet. Thanks. ps. page 96 of my LeeModern Reloading makes a strong case for not doing what you suggested with the XTP and HAP bullets. Thanks again. Still looking for the correct data if you should stumble across it. Oh yes, the XTP is 124 gr not 125.
Bob

 

[Bob72]

RC: Thanks for the input. Already went to Ramshot earlier and the data I needed isn't there. The XTP and HAP are a strange breed. The overall lengths are .572 and .570 respectively. The non ogvie parts are quite long: .326" and .356". I was unable to find info that the max oal is 1.114 . Please see my response to Bovice. as my real concerns so far are Min OAL for this powder bullet combination as extreme pressures can result. Another factor is the HRNDY HAP is .356 dia. Bob

 

[Bovice]

The OAL issue is a concern, I can see that. What you might try is seating the bullets at the maximum OAL specified by SAAMI standards, 1.140". Seat one as a dummy round, and adjust your seating die until you're at 1.140. Start at the low end of the data I posted from the link and work it upwards. Do it in small batches, say, 20 rounds for each charge. Chrono them and also make sure they feed reliably. The chronograph results will tell you if your pressures are reasonable. If you're getting low velocities even at the higher end of the charge weight range, you'll need to seat the bullets deeper.

 

[Striker Fired]

The 124 gr Haps are one of my best Sig bullets,I have 1000 of them waiting to be loaded after my last 1000 are gone .I use AA#9 almost exclusively for the Sig.I didn't try Sillouette ,but I was fairly happy with Blu Dot. Power Pistol,N350,3n37,AA#7 are the others I tried,and although most did group pretty good(I think the consistant good groups had something to do with the Storm Lake barrel I have),AA#9 walked away with it.It burnt as clean as it is possible,VERY consistant,plus it helps prevent setback.My Oal is 1.135.

 

[Bob72]

Striker Fired: Thanks,I probably should have found a powder that works for both the nine and 357Sig. Although I have the Lee second edition Reloading and can find no ref to AA#9 for this shell on either the 9mm or the 357Sig. What load would you use for a start load.? The 9mm is a Ruger SR9C and the 357Sig is the 3.5"S&W M&P.. I shoot the nine more so I was looking for an economical powder. 1 lb Ram gives me about 1600 rounds at the starting load w/MTG bullets and1480 with the XTP bullet. I am new to pistol reloading and am trying very hard not to do something dumb. (Other than ask questions.)

 

[Striker Fired]

As far as AA#9 in the 9mm it wouldn't be the best,I found a 8.7gr MAX load for it and the 124gr XTP,oal1.130 . But that is unpublished and not something that can be relied on.
AA#9 in the Sig, a good starter load would be 10,7gr and it goes up to 12.2 as a max and starting to compress ,oal for me and standard is 1.140.

If you want 1 powder for both and more so for the 9mm, #9 wouldn't be a good one. Silhouette does work for both(I have not used it for the Sig) with a 6.7gr start up to 7.8 Max,oal 1.140 in Sig,and for 9mm start at 4.4gr to a MAX of 6.0gr,oal is 1.115 if it fits in your gun(1.125 fits in all my barrels,none are a Ruger though). Power Pistol would be the best powder fo both acually.

As long as you have Sillhouette it would be worth trying in the Sig,your just loosing the backup for bullet setback,it may shoot great(I have always had good groups with it ).

Me personaly,I would get AA#9 as a second powder for use in the Sig, and use Sillhouette in the 9.

If your interested in it, I'd be willing to try these load myself and see how they work (I have all the powders and bullets),you would still have to do the workup for your gun though.

 

[Bob72]

Great info and another question.

Striker Fired: Thanks. Think I will go with a lb of AA#9 and see how it works in the Sig. I just loaded out 100 rounds of the 9mm, 124gr xtp with 4.3-4.6 grains of Ramshot Silhouette. Min OAL in the book is 1.105 but..and here is the question., I loaded a bit long. from 1.108 out to 1.124 Most in the 1.115 range. All cycled well in the gun but the question now is a squib, (which I will be looking for.) How close to Min COL should one load? Max is 1.140.

Next, if you have them could you load up a few of the HAP's (125 gr) and let me know about a starting load for the Sig with AA#9 powder.
Again, many thanks. Your info has already been very helpful.

 

[Striker Fired]

Your oal is fine,as long as it cycles fine and reliable your good to go,I would mark your long ones so you know which ones they are when you shoot them.If they chamber fine then you could load all of them to that length.Why such a variance in oal? It may not matter as long as your not close to max charge but they should be a little closer.
For squibs ,you should be fine, if they are too light of a charge it'll not feed the next round or jam the fired round. Then you know the charge was weak and to up it by.3gr for now.What would you want to know about those Sig loads? that min I listed ,did cycle my XDM fine,With the Sig,even starting loads have some juice to them.

 

[Bob72]

Different OAL's

Striker fired: Part of the difference in OAL is that I was using different brass. In the future I will separate by headcase and not have varying sizes, although they were all pretty close.

I think that I set the lee die to loose in the turret. When I tightened it up they were much more consistent. I'll use your suggestions when I load the Sig and I'll pull the box and mark the ones over 1.115 and under 1.110 (only one of those) All However were under the max and over the min.

I had several very short ones but, thanks to a suggestion about bullet puller use, was able to lengthen them back with several taps. Beats the daylights out of pulling them apart.
Any other suggestions welcome.

This is a great board and this forum seems to have a bunch of very knowledgeable people.

Thanks,
Bob

 

[JimKirk]

Bob... look at this link for a little info ...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7771929#post7771929

 

[Bob72]

Thanks. Good info for the future, however right now I'm going with the AA#9 loading. Heard from several sources including the Lee edition... Merry Christmas to you and your family.

Bob