.357mag and 2400 problems

[tightgroup tiger]

I may have had a Senior moment but I don't think so. Yesterday, I loaded up 50 rounds of .357mag with 14.7gr of 2400 in my Hornady LNL-AP.
14.9gr is maximum load in the manuals that I have.

My recipe was Hornady XTP 158gr, 14.7gr of 2400, OAL of 1.575 (seated to canular), and Win small pistol primers (not magnum).

When I got to the range and fired these I had several that barely fired, diminished recoil and report. POI was all over the place.
When I would get one of these, I would check the barrel to make sure that I didn't have a visitor loitering around in there.
I've never had this problem before but always used magnum primers with 2400 when I live in PA because of the extreme cold from our winters there.

Now, I'm using a Lee pro-auto disc measure w/adjustable charge bar on my LNL-AP press for the .357mag and am wondering if it was bridging when I was loading. When I set it up it was spot on every charge for about 10 charges straight and was behaving it's self really well, I did several spot checks while loading and they all were spot on.

Question:
I was shooting at an indoor, unheated range and it was 25 degs in there with a stiff wind of outside air blowing at me from behind. The wind chill factor could have been about 10 above zero.
Could this have affected the performance of the 2400 load with the standard primer or do you think my measure was bridging and I didn't catch it?
Or both?
I've never had this happen before but never loaded 2400 without magnum primers.

 

[steveno]

2400 usually meters pretty good so I wouldn't think the powder would be bridging. I think you need to pull a few rounds and weigh the charges to be sure. I assume you had a good crimp and nothing was wrong with the primers. usually 2400 doesn't require magnum primers and some people will tell you that you shouldn't use magnum primers at all with 2400. I have used magnum primers with 2400 and magnum primers and couldn't tell the difference using a chronograph. load a few with magnum primers and see if there is a difference and the problem goes away. just remember that since you are working close to max so you should probably work back up to that charge

 

[tightgroup tiger]

If I switch to magnum primers I will have to start over with my workup.

I was wondering if the cold temperature could have affected my loads with the standard primers.
I did have a good roll crimp on these especially with the standard primers.

These cases were trimmed and the flaring die set to the absolute minimum of being able to start a bullet by hand.

I used this pro-auto disc measure on my pro-1000 for over 25yrs. and never had this problem with any of the powders I've used including 2400.

I suppose I could have some bad primers or a bad bottle of 2400 but I doubt it. That's furthest from my mind right now. I was playing with my new Hornady Auto charge at Christmas and hand loaded 25 .357s at the same 14.7gr and they didn't do this but it was about 40 deg when I shot them.

 

[243winxb]

Now, I'm using a Lee pro-auto disc measure w/adjustable charge bar on my LNL-AP press. I used this pro-auto disc measure on my pro-1000 for over 25yrs. and never had this problem with any of the powders I've used including 2400.

I would guess a Lee pro-auto disc measure powder drop problem. Not cold or standard primer.

 

[ole farmerbuck]

Maybe warm some up a little before shooting them and see if that helps?

 

[steveno]

you might want to check the diameter of the expanding plug. it should be around .354 to .355 and this will give more tension on the bullet

 

[kcofohio]

Two things to check that come to mind.

Check your setup for the powder through die and see if the charge bar cavity is totally exposed to the drop hole. It may not be sliding out enough to drop the full charge each time, leaving a ledge for powder to sit on and not drop.

Are your casing lengths consistent? The casing length will effect how much the charge bar slides out.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

you might want to check the diameter of the expanding plug. it should be around .354 to .355 and this will give more tension on the bullet

I'll definitely do that. They are brand new RCBS gray box dies I got for Christmas.

Check your setup for the powder through die and see if the charge bar cavity is totally exposed to the drop hole. It may not be sliding out enough to drop the full charge each time, leaving a ledge for powder to sit on and not drop.

I have it set to go past about a 1/16". I've already been there and done that one.

Are your casing lengths consistent?

Yes, they were all within .002" in length and were trimmer after resizing.

 

[Bailey Boat]

I can tell you it's not the cold temps because I hunt with an S&W 629 in 44 Mag and my hunting load uses 2400 and I've never had any issue with ignition during cold weather and I also use standard CCI primers.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

you might want to check the diameter of the expanding plug.

The expanding plug in my new RCBS die mic's at .355".

The brass is mixed head stamps that I have been shooting for a long time, some of it could be 25-30 yrs old.

I did notice some smoke from the loads that I thought was pretty odd especially at maximum load. I shot them all so I don't have anything left to inspect.

I've been loading .357mags since the early 1980s when I bought my first Model 28 but I've never had this problem before. I started reloading in 1972.

The only two variables in this is the new powder and the new dies. The dies seem to check out. I primed these on my old Lee Auto Prime on top of my rock-chucker like I always have when I was still using my Pro1000. It's been demoted to de-priming duties.

 

[243winxb]

brand new RCBS gray box dies

If you have RCBS Cowboy dies they are different. Lead bullets only.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I can tell you it's not the cold temps because I hunt with an S&W 629 in 44 Mag and my hunting load uses 2400 and I've never had any issue with ignition during cold weather and I also use standard CCI primers.

I never had problems with it either when I lived in Pa and it gets a lot colder up there then it ever gets in NC.

I just absolutely refuse to think that the powder is bad. I never bought bad powder in my 41 yrs of reloading and don't think I did this time either.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

GUESS WHAT!

I just opened this box of Hornady XTPs yesterday, factory seal bag inside intact.

The first box of bullets were 158gr that I hand loaded with the Auto-Charge powder measure, I ran out of those.

The box I loaded yesterday were factory sealed .38 cal 125gr XTPs and all of them mic out a .355".

I got 9mm bullets in a .38 cal box.

It is a neck tension problem. That explains that.

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[au_prospector]

What does it smell and look like?

My 1 year old jug of 2400 has a very mild almost pleasant odor. The odor is similar to my jug of Unique which to me smells like latex paint. As you probably know it is a uniform in color dark gray fine powder.

Try to load some by hand measuring each charge on a balance beam?

 

[au_prospector]

Well there you go! Your accuracy should have been poor as well, but you might have attributed that to what you originally thought were weak powder charges.

Let Hornady know this, they will likely compensate with fresh bullets. You reload 9mm? If not, send them to me!!!

 

[243winxb]

I got 9mm bullets in a .38 cal box.

OK, wrong bullets in the box.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

They are definitely the wrong caliber bullets. I think in this case someone else had a moment of some kind but it wasn't me.

I do shoot thousands of 9mm and carry one daily so I could use them for that.

I'll call Hornady tomorrow to let them know and give them the lot #.

Well there you go! Your accuracy should have been poor as well, but you might have attributed that to what you originally thought were weak powder charges.

It was, POI all over the place, I blamed it on me being half frozen at the range until I started getting weak loads. I'm glad I didn't load very many of those.

 

[Bailey Boat]

Wrong bullets in the box.... Happened to me one time with some Berry's Bullets. The box said 45 Cal but the bullets were 44 cal. I called them, gave purchase info and lot #, they were appreciative and sent me a replacement box. I threw the 44's away down the barrel of my 696......

 

[Crashbox]

Glad you figured it out. Yeah, I was scratching my head WRT 2400 as it does meter well and works great in the .357...

Glad I bought a good micrometer a couple of weeks ago for my bench, ya never know...

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Glad I bought a good micrometer a couple of weeks ago for my bench, ya never know...

Yea, I usually check diameter on my bullets before I use them, since 9mm and 38 are so close.

That really frosted my Jingle bells when I discovered the wrong dia bullets in the .38cal box, but now I'm more mad at my self for not checking them before I started using them.

I always check my plated bullets before I use them. I slipped up on these.

243winxb, Senior Moment, ... maybe..., it depends... who's askin?
Yea, I screwed up, I should have checked them before I used them, you happy now?

 

[WaywardSon]

Might be wrong & should probably MYOB...but I "think" those .355 bullets are intended for the .357 Sig.

 

[Kosh75287]

Given the ignition problems, I'd take a second look at those primers, too.

 

[bluetopper]

Hornady has the best powder drop system in the business to go on your LNL.......use it.

 

[moxie]

Tiger, When starting up a new load it's always a good idea to do the "push test" after seating to check case neck tension. Do it before you apply any crimp.

 

[buck460XVR]

GUESS WHAT!


I got 9mm bullets in a .38 cal box.

So they did not have a cannelure on them? That should have been an obvious giveaway. If they had a cannelure, they ain't for 9mm. What was the product number? Call Hornady and ask what the application for that product is. Hornady would want to know the lot # if bullets are packaged wrong and from my experience will reward you for letting them know or at least compensate you for their mistake. Otherwise I suspect low powder charge, and/or weak crimp or a bad batch of primers. I have heard of some recent manufacture Winchester primers causing ignition problems but can't remember which ones. As for the temperature, 25 degrees is not that cold....... Humans feel wind chill, but metal and other inanimate objects without skin do not.