.357mag loads with W296?

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something vague

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I have recently loaded up some test .357mag rounds using Win296 under a Hornady 140gr. HP/XTP. I loaded three of each, 16.4 grains; 17.0 grains; and 17.4 grains with an COAL of 1.590". CCI 550 primers.

I am shooting these through a Ruger SP101.

I have a few quesitons concerning these loads. I shot all three test today in 35deg weather.
1.) I have heard mixed feelings about using slow burning powders in a short barrelled gun. What are most ppl's experiences with slow powders in short barrells? Are the suitable?

2.) It seemed like these loads created a mess in the chamber and barrel of the gun. Most of the mess looked as though it was powder left over but much lighter in color than the original powder used. Is this normal with this kind of load?

3.) I used the Hornady Loading Manual and they seemed to be pretty light when compared to my Speer and Lyman manuals. I had no signs of excessive pressure with the 17.4 grain load but I beleive that the Speer manual begins their loads around this powder weight. Is there that much difference in bullet designs or is Hornady manual just covering their ass and short changing their loads a bit? (I have no chrono at the moment so I have no idea how fast these loads were.)

4.) Would increasing powder charges for this load clean things up a bit in the gun due to the higher pressures? And how much higher could I go to stay in the safe pressure ranges?

Sorry for the long drawn out post but I am pretty new to reloading and have never loaded for full house mag rounds before. I could not for the life of me find stuff about this on the net and was hoping someone here would have experience with these loads. Thanks.
 
Dear something;

Some powders like 296 and H110 are hard to ignite, for a start, and just don't have much time to burn in a short barrel. Also, these powders usually need to be close to max, (but I'm not recommending you go right to the top charge!). As with any powder, you need to work up.
A heavy crimp may help a little with ignition.

Check out Hodgden's data page. They have loads for the bullet you are using. They show a starting load of 17.1 gr of 296 with the 140 XTP.

Even if you increase your powder charge, you will likely have quite a bit of residue with this powder in a short barrel, not to mention muzzle flash.

By your choice of powder, it looks like you are looking for a top velocity load, but you may do better (as far as burning characteristics go) if you chose a faster powder.
 
I did some testing with a 2 1/4 inch barrel SP101 and I found the slower powders did not work well I am using AA#5 for those loads now. HS6 would work well if your using Hodgdon powder.
 
1. they work in short barrels. 2. The mess in the barrel is because of low pressure. 3. Hodgdon site list 17.1 as a starting load. 19.0 is listed as maximum with the bullet your using. 4. Yes increasing the powder charge will clean it up. BUT when working up to maximum, you may run into a pressure spike. So go slow and careful. Always use a magnum prime with Win. 296 http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp
 
I love W296 out of a 6" GP100, but not out of the SP101. If you want to stick with it in the stubby, tighten up on your crimps and work up towards a max load. Basically exactly what the above posters said.

T2E
 
I use W-231 in my 2 1/2" S&W mod 19 and 140 grain XTP. Getting 1100+ fps. And I'm just short of a maximum powder charge. Burns clean and completely, but you do need a firm crimp.

If this helps
 
I have no doubt that 16.4gr charge was responsible for most of the "mess" you had. Like said above, W296/H110 will be cleanest when loaded at or near Max charges. Depending upon what you are using the rounds for that may or may not be the best route to take. Generally I don't pick a powder by barrel length. Id a load is a good one it's good it's good. I know slower powders need ~5" of barrel to burn completely but using a faster powder will probably drop the velocity and if you try to get the velocity back up you will probably push the pressures too high.

If you're not too concerned with velocity and can live with 20% less there are several powders that you will like. HS-6, Longshot, Power Pistol, True Blue, AA#7 and Herco will all work to name a few.
 
The reason for this load development is to be able to shoot white tail deer with. I'm not a big deer hunter during the season but spend most of my time then bird hunting. I'm after mostly partridge and an occasional woodcock, but absolutely love just hiking around the woods that time of year. But I carry a .357mag around for bear protection and also in case I'm lucky enough to stroll upon a decent buck to fill my freezer. This is all just in the testing stages now as I really should wait till I order my chrono to verify the speeds of the loads coming out of this size gun and also check local hunting laws to see if it's legal to shoot white-tail with this round in this gun. I have also been contemplating trading it in for a longer barrelled GP100 or Smith of some sort, although after the performance of the SP101 I'm kinda partial to Ruger revolvers at the moment. For the price this thing has been an absolute tack driver for me, it is deadly accurate for it's size!
 
If you are using the rounds for Bear protection I would suggest a 180gr Hard Cast bullet over a stiff charge. I wouldn't however shoot a load like that from a SP101, your GP100 is a much better choice.
 
I had good luck with a 140 speer and 2400 (a slow powder similar in burn rate). The heavier bullet works a LOT better with slow powders than does the ever popular 125 grainer. I was getting 1330 or that FPS from the 2.25" barrel. 296 should work with a 140, but not so much with a 125. It was a very accurate load in that gun, too. I still use it in a 3" Taurus 66. I don't care for the 125 grain bullet in .357, but if I was going to load it hot, I'd look at blue dot or something similar. Blue dot is a good short barrel .357 powder, a bit faster than the traditional 296/2400/H110 powders.
 
Yeah I def used a magnum primer and put what I consider a pretty heavy crimp on the round with redding's profile crimp die. Therefore before the actual roll crimp it seems as though there was a real tight taper crimp before it even reached the roll section of the die. It felt good enough in the press and looked good. I really don't think that the residue that was left over from any of these loads was much unburnt powder. It just looked like it was burnt powder residue as the some of the particles were much lighter in color than the original powder. Just was curious if this powder is known for being pretty dirty when compared to much faster burning powders in say a 38spl. round.
 
I've had great luck with 16.6 grains of 296, magnum primer. In some manuals, this is a max load, but its accurate and fun.:)
 
Wow!! 16.6 grains of W-296 under a 140 grain bullet? Sierra starts at 17.6 and ends at 19.6. Lyman 48th has no listing for 140 grain bullet and W-296. And Winchester list no 140 grain bullet and W-296, but has a listing for 145 grain with only one listing of 17.5 grains of W-296. It may be that I need to upgrade some of my year 2000 manuals, but......

Either that or you ,Redneck With a 40, didn't notice that we have been working with a 140 grain bullet here on this thread. What bullet weight are you using with that LIGHT load of W-296?

Something Vague...Where did you get your data from? I just can't find reputable data for less then 17.5 grains of W-296 with a 140 grain bullet
 
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That is exceptable. We have to remember that others are reading these threads and do not have the experience that we have to figure that out or research it. We must remember to give all the details (or most) of our reloads...

And no...I'm not perfect (though I believe so:D) and get corrected on ocassion here too.:eek:
 
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I really like the 125gr XTP for deer out of a 6" GP100. I've taken about a dozen out to 85 yards and all were DRT. Some guys think this is light for a deer bullet, but the rapid expansion and 1500fps+ velocity really does the job. For bear, I would go with the 180gr Hard Cast loads suggested above.

T2E
 
I got my load data from the newest edition of Hornady. I try to stick with bullet manufacturers when reloading for a specific bullet. I will keep working this load up a bit more as I def think there was room for improvement, no high pressure signs at all.
 
All the data on the Hodgdon Load Data site for a 140gr bullet in a .357 Magnum is for a Hornady XTP bullet. 16.4gr of W296 is definitely too low a starting charge especially when you take into consideration W296 shouldn't be downloaded. Be careful when using W296/H110 because you can cause detonation with too low a charge. Hodgdon is very specific about those powders and tells us not to download more than 3%.

140 GR. HDY XTP W296 1.590" 17.1gr 1597 fps 28,400 CUP 19.0gr 1762 fps 40,900 CUP
 
Crimp, mag primer, and a little more barrel length.
Great/Best load for 6" gp100, not so for my 4" gp100 all I can say.
 
I understand that I won't get the performance that 6" revolver will get by any means but I have come to the conclusion that W296/H110 will be my best bet out of any length barrel for a full house magnum load. Flash isn't a concern for me as the shots will most likely take place during the day. Thank you for all the responses and will start going by Hogdons load data for this load. It seems like in all my data from the Hornady manual is significantly lower when compared to data elswhere, especially my Speer manual. But I have always read and been told to use data from the manufacturer of the bullet you intend to use due to things like different bearing surfaces and such. Has anyone else thought that Hornady's load data seems to start and end low? I some cases the max load that Hornady gives is the start load out of the Speer manual (I believe this is the 124gr. 9mm).
 
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