.38/.357 loads

[Random 8]

New on THR, not new to reloading or gun forums in general.

I've recently acquired a Taurus 66 in .357 and am dabbling in IHMSA silhouette. Don't expect to ever seriously compete in this sport, but will be shooting some informal field pistol matches going forward (still plan to use the .41 mag BH for Big Bore). I'm basically looking for 3 loads.

1. A basic, inexpensive cast bullet load for casual shooting and also for the shorter distance targets in Silhouette. Have had some luck with a Missouri 125 cast over HP38. I'd like to stick with the 125 grain weight at .38Spl pressures here, as my wife will also shoot these in her purse gun.

2. A lazer beam for the field pistol rams (100 yards, aprox the size of a fox). Looking into the Hornady 110 XTP over either H110 or HS-6.

3. A heavy hunting and bear defense load in 158 grains to carry in my sidearm around my hunting land. I have the Nosler 158 JHP loaded over H110 in .357 and am fairly pleased with the accuracy. Wondering about experience with this bullet in .357 on game.

Would like to stick with HP 38, HS6, H110 or another spherical, as I like accurately metered charges and flake powders suitable for HG cartridges meter like cornflakes. Thanks in advance for any personal experiences with similar combos.

 

[Dudedog]

Welcome to THR ;lots of great people here.

Powders sound good.
MBC makes good bullets.
Acme has a Coated BHN 16 105gr .38 bullet, don't know if it would stand up to the vels you want but might be worth a try, less $ for sure than 110 XTPs.
Never tried with a bullet lighter than 158gr but I do know the 158 BHN 18s will go Full power with H110 in .357 just fine. (at least in my pistol)
No help on the Noslers on game, sorry.

 

[Random 8]

I've tried the Hi tek bullets in my .41, and they will not take the heat of high speed loads. I've gone back to a conventional cast/lubed BHN18 for those speeds. I do love them in my 9mm automatics though. Feed very slick. I have some Acme 125 BH 16s on order. We'll see how those work vs the BH12 Missouris. I was able to run that bullet to around 1000 before accuracy started to deteriorate resulting in some leading.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Welcome to the forum.

For the #2 load I would go with HS-6 over W296/H110 or better yet, give W572 a try. While it's similar HS-6 it seems to light easier than HS-6 so a magnum primer might not be necessary in all applications. It's cleaner too.

 

[Random 8]

Hadn't considered (or heard of) W572. Just went over the numbers, and it might be a good fit for several of my applications including shotgun field loads at lower operating pressures for similar speeds vs HS-6. I'm a fan of safety margins. Will have to look into it. Will probably go with the H-6 for now, it's been in my inventory since I started loading 16ga pheasant loads back in the 1980s. Still have a couple of the empty metal W540 cans full of cp#5shot in the collection for fond memories of bad roosters and good dogs. Hodgdon's quoted velocity of "1776" is speaking to me also. Won't actualize this vel as they tested in a 10" barrel, but I like the number. Might work up a few with the H110 just to see how they do and throw some fireballs. The benefit of living in the country, I can literally step out of the garage, put 6 on paper, and go right back to the press and tweak the load.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm also a huge fan of HS-6 but when companies bring out another powder that fills the same general spot on the chart and claim it's more environmentally friendly I get nervous and start working up loads with the new powder just in case they discontinue the powder I like. It's been done a lot. HS-5 is gone and so is HS-7. All the IMR SR series of powders have recently been trashed so I don't trust them.

BTW, the new W244 seems to be similar to W231/HP-38.

 

[brewer12345]

I load a 133 grain cast RNFP over 4.4 grains of HP 38 in 38 special cases. Very accurate and not too much recoil. Something close to that charge should work with a 125 grain bullet. Mine are cast around 11 or 12 BHN so they obturate even at modest pressure.

Another option for load #1 would be a double end wadcutter. Very accurate at modest ranges and can be accurate even at lower charges.

 

[brewer12345]

Oh yeah: For a bear load I would be thinking along the lines of a WFN gas checked cast solid bullet as heavy as you can find. 357 is a marginal proposition for bears and a hollow point is really not a good idea.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Oh yeah: For a bear load I would be thinking along the lines of a WFN gas checked cast solid bullet as heavy as you can find. 357 is a marginal proposition for bears and a hollow point is really not a good idea.

I think this is exactly what you're looking for. I like these bullets a lot and they are accurate for me.
http://www.grizzlycartridge.com/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=CP38180

Those are the exact same bullets used in Grizzly Cartridges factory ammo.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

That Grizzly ammo is good stuff. I use it in my .41 mag. 250 gr WFNGC bullets and they about back me up a step if I'm not ready for them. Accurate as hell to.

 

[2ndtimer]

In my experience, the .357 Magnum revolver is happiest with 158 gr bullets, particularly lighter framed .357's like the S&W "K" frames and your Taurus. Using hotter loads with lighter bullets actually is harder on the guns and can lead to flame cutting of the top strap and even cracked forcing cone barrels. Also, at 100 yards, those lighter bullets will lose their velocity quicker and be more affected by wind.
For a mild load, I suppose you could use a lightweight cast bullet, but I prefer the standard 148 gr full wadcutter in .357 brass with Bullseye, HP-38, Titegroup or similar powder. They cut nice clean holes in targets and also compress the case volume for more consistent combustion of the small powder charges.
My chosen "utility load", which could be used for most anything is a 170 gr Keith style SWC over 7.9 gr of Alliant Power Pistol with CCI-500 primers. It clocks over 1200 fps out of my 6" GP-100 and almost 1,000 fps from my 2" SP-101. Not exactly Grizzly medicine but it could change a small black bear's attitude.
Years ago, when I completed in IHMSA with a 10" TC Contender in .357, our standard load was a 158 gr JHP or JSP with 16.6 gr of W-296 or H-110 for the chickens through turkeys. The Rams got 180 or 200 gr Speer TMJ bullets behind 14 or 15 gr of the same powder or 13 gr of Accurate No.9. The 158 gr Hornady XTP (non HP) would also be a decent load for bear encounters with a healthy charge of 296/H-110 or Alliant Power Pro 300-MP.

 

[buck460XVR]

1.) Iffin you are going to load for two different revolvers, you might be better off thinking plated or coated as throats/bores will probably be different and thus, leading and accuracy could vary between them. HP38/W231 is a good choice as is Unique.

2.) sounds like you got a handle on the bullet...I'd stick with the H110/W296.

3.) While the Nosler 158 gr JHPs are great for accuracy, they're more of a SD bullet against two legged predators than a hunting bullet for deer and/or bear. I liked Speer's old 170 gr GDSP for deer, but they don't make 'em anymore. Another good penetrating .357 bullet is the Hornady 158gr XTP-JFP, not the hollow point. Performs well for me and gives excellent penetration on deer even at carbine velocities. Works very well on them from my 686s too. Again, H110/W296 would be my go to powder from a revolver. Speer makes a good 158gr JSP that has worked well for me too and does not come apart.

 

[red rick]

The cast .358 WFN bullets do not fit any of the chambers on 3 different .357's that I own . You might do better with a cast SWC , I would not want to use a HP on a bear .

 

[Random 8]

I should add, the "bears" in question would be blackies, not grizzlies. Anytime I camp in grizzly country, a 30-06 with 180 Norma Orxys comes with. On the rare occasion I might be in a national park where that is not an option, it is the .41 with WFNGCs. Interesting the 158 Nosler isn't getting any love. The 210 in .41 has been a great deer stopper for me. Not looking at this as a primary hunting arm, but something compact I might carry if tracking or crawling through the brush. Will have to check out the XTPFP.

 

[brewer12345]

I should add, the "bears" in question would be blackies, not grizzlies. Anytime I camp in grizzly country, a 30-06 with 180 Norma Orxys comes with. On the rare occasion I might be in a national park where that is not an option, it is the .41 with WFNGCs. Interesting the 158 Nosler isn't getting any love. The 210 in .41 has been a great deer stopper for me. Not looking at this as a primary hunting arm, but something compact I might carry if tracking or crawling through the brush. Will have to check out the XTPFP.

In addition to the XTP, Sierra makes a 158 grain JSP that has a reputation of being a stoutly constructed bullet. From what I hear this is the sort of thing people use for hogs in 357 levers. Might be worth a look. I experimented with Lil Gun and this bullet in a lever rifle and got excellent accuracy and blazing speeds. If hogs ever get established in my state, I would have no issues hunting bunnies with mild 38s in the rifle and keeping a handful of Sierra JSP/Lil Gun 357s around in case of a hog or two.

 

[Texas1880]

I keep it simple.
357s get a 158 grain jacketed hollow point either a hornady xtp or a zero jhp, which are interchangeable

2400 for powder at 13.5 grains, it’s hot, but not top end. Shoots great in my j frames, k frames and 686s. The reason I went for 2400 was for versatility, as h110 likes to be loaded hot for best accuracy as I understand it.

I plan to use the same for my marlin 1894c if they ever ship them, or a Winchester 1892 carbine when they ship them.

Just too lazy to go to lower weights and tailor. I’ve found great accuracy for every firearm I’ve shot with that combo. Plus my 650 cranks em out, and I’ve got 4K or so waiting to be shot. It was a cold winter....

PS I might try 300-MP from Alliant next, as my 2400 load gets me 1200FPS(1300 at max load) but 300-MP claims a whopping 1686 FPS at max loading, and can allegedly handle being loaded down a bit without sacrificing accuracy like h110

 

[cfullgraf]

2. A lazer beam for the field pistol rams (100 yards, aprox the size of a fox). Looking into the Hornady 110 XTP over either H110 or HS-6.

.

Back in the 1980s when I was shooting IHMSA silhouette, I used 158 grain jacketed bullets over Winchester 296 powder. We were shooting 200m rams at that time as the shorter handgun/hunter course of fire was just getting started. Except for the Speer 180 grain rifle bullets, heavier bullets were few and far between at that time. I was shooting both a S&W Model 19 and a 10" Contender. The Speer bullets would not work in revolvers.

For shorter ranges and smaller targets, lighter bullets would probably work with a flatter trajectory.

For full power 357 Magnum loads, I like W296/H110. If I want lower power loads, I use a different powder.

IMR 4227 never rang my bell and I stopped using 2400 due to an excessive amount of unburned granules left in the gun. For 2400, some adjustments in the assembling of the load may have eliminated/reduced the amount of unburned granules but I was happy with W296 so never bothered to tweak my loads with 2400.

As an aside, I cracked the forcing cone of my Model 19 shooting the158 grain loads and pressed my 45 Colt S&W Model 25-5 into action for a match. The slow moving 255 grain SWC bullets would reliably knock down a ram but with a rainbow trajectory. I had to aim about 20 feet above the berm to even hope to hit the ram. I even managed to knocked one down on the bounce.

 

[2ndtimer]

I keep it simple.

PS I might try 300-MP from Alliant next, as my 2400 load gets me 1200FPS(1300 at max load) but 300-MP claims a whopping 1686 FPS at max loading, and can allegedly handle being loaded down a bit without sacrificing accuracy like h110

Don't get too excited about Alliant's velocity claims. They are from a 10" test barrel. I tried it in my 6" GP-100 and did get maybe a 50 fps increase over W-296, or a little over 1300 fps. Frankly, I was more impressed with the over 1200 fps I got with just 7.9 gr of Power Pistol and the 162 gr (they refer to it as a 170 gr) cast bullet. Solid performance with less than half the amount of powder per load.

 

[ray15]

PS I might try 300-MP from Alliant next, as my 2400 load gets me 1200FPS(1300 at max load) but 300-MP claims a whopping 1686 FPS at max loading, and can allegedly handle being loaded down a bit without sacrificing accuracy like h110

Why would you not just continue to use 2400 for the lighter loads? Its burn rate means you would not be down loading it as much as H110 or 300MP, and it probably still downloads better than either. H110 does one thing, but it does it exceedingly well. Use it for what it's good for - full-power loads.

 

[Toprudder]

PS I might try 300-MP from Alliant next, as my 2400 load gets me 1200FPS(1300 at max load) but 300-MP claims a whopping 1686 FPS at max loading, and can allegedly handle being loaded down a bit without sacrificing accuracy like h110

I can speak to this. I tried 300-MP in my 5" GP100 and saw no advantage over other powders. In fact, the loads I worked up reached a velocity plateau long before I reached the max charge (velocity did not change at all for the last 1.5n increase in charge). I had a hard time trying to understand that.

When I started working up loads for my 16" carbine, I decided to try 300-MP again, with the same bullets (158 XTP/FP). This time, I saw a linear velocity increase all the way up to the max charge, which was over 1800fps and about 200fps faster than anything else I tried. I went back and looked at the Alliant data, and the speed posted by them was from a 10" barrel.

These results, along with what I have seen in 44mag (6", 10", and 20" barrels) indicates to me that 300-MP doesn't really shine until you get to longer barrels. If you want to download it, though, it works ok, and you don't have to use magnum primers. But if I wanted less than magnum velocity, I will use BE-86, it works extremely well for mid-range loads.

 

[Eddietruett]

For the lighter bullet, I've had great success with 130gr HyTek Coated from Summers Enterprises and SNS. The mold is identical. Summers is cheaper but SNS seems to have a Prettier and more consistent coating. I can't tell a bit of difference in accuracy however. My pet load is 5.0 gr of Universal which pushes it around 1000 fps in my 7" and 8 3/8" model 686's. My Hog load which I would think would be great for bear is the Missouri HyTek 180gr with 1205gr of 2400. That gives around 1250 fps out of the 8 3/8" gun. I've just started testing some bullets from GT Bullets. They have a wide variety of medium hardness cast (11 Brinell) mostly in hollow point but a few flat points. They have a 140 gr hp that is very accurate and will expand well at 850fps.

 

[warnerwh]

I am going to guess that Eddie meant 12.5 grains of 2400.

 

[Walkalong]

Or 12.0 like in his other post. Definitely not 1205 though.

 

[buck460XVR]

The nice thing about .357 is that it is a very forgiving cartridge. Easy to reload and there is a myriad of proven readily available components available for it that work well, whether one is looking for powder puffers to screamers. Comes down to what floats your boat. Case capacity dictates it's hard, if not impossible to double charge with preferred slower burning powders used in upper tier loads. It's the light loads with faster burning powders that can be the problem. One reason I like Unique for lighter loads, it's bulkiness makes a double charge easy to see and while many claim at it's lower end it's dirty, unburnt powder and carbon doesn't bother me. While many claim it doesn't throw well, most of the time it's the slight weight variation that bothers folks. But, with Unique, it's the consistent volume that makes for consistent shooting. This is why those folks that still use dippers like it so well. A powder thrower is just an automated dipper, thus as long as the volume is consistent, you are good to go. A tenth or two of a difference in charge in .357, isn't even going to be noticeable. H110/W296 IS the powder for .357 when one wants the fastest, most accurate loads. Again, case capacity makes for this. While I likes me some IMR4227 in my .44 mags, it doesn't do much for me in .357. While there was a time when all the fanboys were jumping on the Lil' Gun bandwagon for magnum velocities, the premature and excessive forcing cone erosion and the extreme barrel heat it produced has led to very little if any, talk of it and it's use in revolvers anymore. 2400 is a powder many use because it has wider parameters than many powders. But I've found that using a powder that works best and not just "ok" at all velocities/projectile weight, costs me no more and is more efficient in the long run. Because I shoot 4 revolvers and two carbines in .357, and use the same ammo in all of them, I tend to stick with jacked bullets. I have tried plated and coated and they work okay, but it just adds to my inventory of components, which my wife claims is an obsession already. Doesn't mean they aren't the cat's meow for someone else. The nice thing about .357 is that because the various components are so readily available and relatively inexpensive compared to most other handgun calibers, one can experiment without breaking the bank to fin what works well for them, and their guns. This is what I tell folks that are new to reloading .357. While one needs to follow published recipes, if you really are looking for something that works well in all your firearms and not just trying to imitate common factory loads, try several powders/projectile combos until you find "the one". Even then, you will find you are always wanting to try something new and different with .357.....just because you can.

 

[warnerwh]

Even then, you will find you are always wanting to try something new and different with .357.....just because you can.

Yup and the next thing you know you'll be wondering what are you doing with so many different components. If you're like me you'll end up with components that you don't use for years but plan to.