.38 loads in .357 cases

[SteelyNirvana]

I've heard that if your using a .357 chambered gun, your accuracy will be better if you use .357 cases with .38 loads because of the extra length. How much so? Last time I was at the range I fired some 158gr SWC's over 4.0gr of 231 using .38 cases. This load was pretty accurate out of my 4" S&W 66 but could have been better. Would it be worth the effort to try some with .357's cases?

Another question, I'm using bullets from the Lee 158SWC-TL mold. I usually seat these to the last TL grove. If I seat from the second to last, would this help also?

 

[williamd]

I have not noticed any appreciable difference using 38 or 357 cases with 38 load data. Typically, I use 38 cases in my 357s but if low on brass I build the same load in 357 brass.

I seat WC / SWC in last grove, leaves bout 1/16 inch exposed. Again, have tried various seatings but no real diff.

At ranges to 25 yards neither seem to matter.

 

[rcmodel]

It stands to reason that getting the front driving band of the bullet into the chamber throat will help accuracy.

But the main advantage of using .357 cases in a .357 is to avoid the hard fouling ring at the front of the longer chambers when shooting a lot of .38 Spl in them.

This stuff becomes packed and hard and is difficult to remove when cleaning.

If not removed, it can cause all sorts of problems when switching back to Magnum pressure loads.
That includes increasing pressure even further due to the fouling not allowing full case expansion to release the bullet.
Also can cause hard ejection.

rc

 

[Walkalong]

But the main advantage of using .357 cases in a .357 is to avoid the hard fouling ring at the front of the longer chambers when shooting a lot of .38 Spl in them.

Which is why I use .357 cases for .38 Spl type loads in my .457s. Too lazy to clean the chambers more often I guess, plus I think it helps accuracy some to limit the jump to the forcing cone.

 

[jfh]

...and another who builds his 38-Special (ballistics) rounds in 357 cases. Nearly all of my j-frames are 357 frames--and I do keep at the cleaning. However, I've not recently tested for the accuracy issues.

Jim H.

 

[lgbloader]

Which is why I use .357 cases for .38 Spl type loads in my .457s. Too lazy to clean the chambers more often I guess, plus I think it helps accuracy some to limit the jump to the forcing cone.

Aint that the truth, AC. I stopped using .38 spl cases in my 357's so I don't have to deal with that dang fouling ring.

LGB

 

[Remo-99]

Last time I was at the range I fired some 158gr SWC's over 4.0gr of 231 using .38 cases. This load was pretty accurate out of my 4" S&W 66 but could have been better. Would it be worth the effort to try some with .357's cases?

When trying reproduce a 38spl load in a 357mag case and revolver it will normally take an extra 5%-10% of powder, to make up for the larger case capacity of the 357, depending on brass used(headstamps etc.)

Charges of 231 in the range of 4.2gr to 4.4gr, in 357mag cases should put you in the same region as the 4.0gr load in 38spl cases.

 

[ChristopherG]

I have several thousand brass .38 cases and several hundred .357 cases. I also used to shoot IDPA SSR, and .38 cases give a faster, more reliable ejection and a slightly easier and faster load than .357's. It did entail running a nylon brush through each chamber a couple of times before shooting .357's. Not hard.

As for the accuracy difference: it makes some theoretical sense, but there are precious few shooters accurate enough to be able to show it. I'm certainly not.

 

[Walkalong]

and .38 cases give a faster, more reliable ejection and a slightly easier and faster load than .357's.

I have heard that before. That would certainly be a good reason to use them.

 

[ChristopherG]

The hardcore revolver dudes in all-wheelgun competitions run 8-shot S&W .357 mags and use .38 Long Colt brass. Using brass THAT short, I understand that what they give up in accuracy IS detectable--but not so significant that the guys shooting them aren't winning with them!

 

[Steve C]

I've heard that if your using a .357 chambered gun, your accuracy will be better if you use .357 cases with .38 loads because of the extra length.

This is a much repeated statement that hasn't a bit of truth to it. A theory that sounds good on the surface but doesn't hold up to scrutiny when evaluated by test data available even though the test was't to proove or disproove the premise. When looking at data presented in an article on .38 spl wad cutter loads by Ken Waters in Handloader magazine shooting from several different pistols including a .357 mag, the .357 mag shoots .38 spl every bit as good as .38 spl chambered pistols and with the right load can be superior.

 

[jfh]

I remember reading that Handloader article, Steve.

What's others' experiences with shifting POI between the two cases?

Jim H.

 

[SteelyNirvana]

When looking at data presented in an article on .38 spl wad cutter loads by Ken Waters in Handloader magazine shooting from several different pistols including a .357 mag, the .357 mag shoots .38 spl every bit as good as .38 spl chambered pistols and with the right load can be superior.

I've got several back issues, do you remember what issue that was in? I'm curious to read it.

 

[Steve C]

The article was in Handloader Sept-Oct 1976. I've scanned the article to PDF format. Here's a link to the pdf file that should work. .38 Specia Wadcutters Pet Loads

While the article wasn't about .357 mag pistol vrs .38 spl its interesting to note the data shows no advantage to the .38 spl chambered pistols and accuracy was more dependent on load match to the pistol not pistol chambering. Just the data is shown in the files attached.

 

[Lee Roder]

SteveC thanks for real data!

 

[SteelyNirvana]

Thanks for posting think link as my back issues only go back until 2002, lol.

 

[USSR]

.38 Special cases are cheap and plentiful. I use them for everything but fullbore hunting loads.

Don

 

[chriske]

Remo-99's advice duplicates mine :

I do just that : increase the .38 Spl charge with 10 % in .357 M cases.
For instance 3.1 gr of W-231 under a 148 gr HBWC becomes 3.4 Gr in .357 M case

I must admit I use this "conversion system" only with light loads of fast burning pôwder.
I have no experience with heavy loads of "slow burners".

 

[Coffeeguy]

I think that perception comes form rifle shooting, where the amount of freebore, or the "jump" the bullet makes before it actually engages the rifling, is a factor in accuracy at long ranges. Revolvers by nature will always have that "jump" between the cylinder, into the forcing cone and then the rifling...Seat a round out far enough to almost engage the rifling and it'll protrude outside of the cylinder. And most people don't use revolvers for targets at 300-plus yards. The extra 1/10-inch or so of bullet travel might make a slight difference but with all the other human factors involved in shooting, it won't be noticeable.

 

[Revolver218]

I've shot .38 wc from .357 revolvers since the early 70's and never had a problem with a "fouling ring". Back in the day hundreds of us qualified annually using this combo and I have a M28 dating to 1967 with chambers as good as new. The answer is really simple, scrub it after each use until it's clean so the fouling won't begin.

 

[joed]

Mark me down as another that has never had a problem firing Spl cases in a .357. And at one time I had 5 .357 revolvers that would fire Spl or Mag with no problems.