.38 short colt

[walking arsenal]

will a .38 (long, short???) colt round work in a .38 special or .357 mag?

just curious, that i read somthing about it someplace(shrugs)

ive never seen the .38 colt round before as it's not a popular defensive round i have no experience with it.

 

[Old Fuff]

Yes, a .38 Short Colt will chamber in either a .38 Special or .357 Magnum, but there is little (some would say no) reason to do so. It was originally intended to be used in spur-trigger pocket revolvers back during the mid-1870's. If you found a box of the stuff today it would be a collectable.

 

[Josey]

What!? I have a box of 50. Green and yellow Remington box with DuPont markings. 125 gr lead. They have a UPC code sticker on them. The safety rules are in English and French. Kleenbore priming. Headstamp is R-P 38 SC Remington made runs of these in the 80s IIRC. The thing is, they would be inaccurate. They are not the proper diameter to shoot in a 38/357 Magnum. 38 S&W isn't either. They are low pressure loads so I doubt they would cause a KB. I have seen one revolver that had the barrel split by a Pringle type stacking of rounds. The first round was stuck in the barrel. Each round triggered off simply stacked behind the first round until the last round triggered had no place to go and the barrel split. A nice old Colt 38 Police Positive was ruined. I am keeping mine as a source of reference/collectible.

 

[Josey]

The 38 Long Colt is a black powder low pressure load. I would not trust most of the antique rounds. They are sought after by collectors and SAW reenactors for display. The last nice box of 38 Long Colt I saw was priced at a little over $65.00. You can get new from around $30.00 a box of 50 from www.ows-ammunition.com

 

[Old Fuff]

A collector will give you between 50 to 75 cents per cartridge. That would come to $25.00 to $37.50 for the box. Beats shooting them.

All of the S&W and Colt pre-war advertising for .38 Special revolvers stated that .38 Short Colt, .38 Long Colt and .38 Special (mid-range and regular) could be fired in their guns.

 

[Josey]

IIRC, there was also a Colt New Police round too. I believe they came in 32 and 38 caliber.

 

[Old Fuff]

You are right.

But the .32 CNP (Colt New Police) is identical to the .32 S&W Long except for a slight flat on the bullet's nose.

The .38 CNP is identical to the .38 S&W.

Both were created so that the folks at Hartford wouldn't have to stamp anything on their revolvers that might refer to that "other company" in Springfield.

This duplication wasn't necessary in the case of the .38 Short and Long Colt as both were originally Colt designs. However neither of the New Police rounds will work in revolvers chambered for the Colt cartridges.

Strangly, Smith & Wesson created the .38 Special as an offshoot of the .38 Long Colt.

 

[Josey]

I wonder who thought up the 38/44? I also have a box of 50 Peters METAL PIERCING 38 Specials. Confusing. I also wonder why they even call the 38-40 a 38?

 

[Majic]

The 38/44 was the result of Winchester working with S&W to up the power level of the .38sp. Smith chambered a .44 frame for the .38 cartridge and Winchester supplied the ammo.
Some have said that the 38-40 name is a throwback from how old blackpowder cartridges got their names. It was a 44-40 cartridge case necked down to .40 caliber and loaded with 38 grains of blackpowder. I guess 40-38 didn't sound right to them.

 

[Old Fuff]

Majic:

Ya got the right idea, but you got the numbers turned around.

Originally the 44-40 used a bullet that was closer to .427 then .44, and was loaded with 40 grains of black powder.

The 38-40 used a .401 diameter slug and was also loaded with 40 grains of black powder.

The caliber designations (.38, .44, etc) didn't always represent the true bullet diameter.

 

[Majic]

According to "Cartridges of the World" (8th edition) Winchester loaded several version of the cartridge. One was specifically for the Colt Lightning Magazine Rifle (the 38 CLMR), the standard load of a 180gr .401" bullet over 38gr of black powder (the 38 WCF), and the same 180 grainer over 40gr of black powder. They headstamped that load as 38-40. They say that may be the confusion of today as we call the standard 38 WCF load by the name of the 38-40.
The 44-40 is also the 44WCF, but the 44-40 name stuck thru the ages. Maybe that's why the 38-40 name remained common even though it wasn't the name of the standard load.
And to think new shooters today have trouble with cartridge names.

 

[Old Fuff]

Yup, you're right - this is a real mud hole. But anyway the point I was trying to make was that the first number relates to the (approximate) bullet diameter, and the second to the standard charge of black powder.

The .38-40 cartridge (a.k.a. .38WCF) originated with Winchester in 1880, and was first chambered into their model 1873 rifle. Colt started to use it their Single Action Army in 1884, which was the same year they came up with the pump-action "Lightning" rifle and induced the cartridge makers to create the .32 CLMR, .38 CLMR and .44 CLMR. "CLMR" stood for "Colt Lightning Magazine Rifle," and all were interchangeable with their Winchester counterparts (.32-20, .38-40 and .44-40). The reason for all of this was that Colt didn't want to mark anything on their guns that might contain the slightest reference to Winchester. So the cartridges weren’t really different, just the names.

Clear as mud?? Well I said it was a .....

 

[Josey]

Hmmm. Ruger was just following Colt when they produced tight bore 44s. It is clear as fog to me. LOL

 

[BluesBear]

Remington still sells the .38 Short Colt.

 

[Old Fuff]

I know, my dealer has a box.

He may have it for a long time .....

 

[BluesBear]

Everytime I come across a box marked down to a decent price at a gun show I buy it. Especially the old Winchester "Lubaloy" ammo. It's great plinking ammo.

Years ago when I had a bunch of brass I even reloaded it extra light for plinking. I just had to separate the Remington from the Winchester since the cases were different length.