38 special as magnum loads

[Axis II]

Not to be rude so please don't take it this way as I was in your shoes 2yrs ago. Didn't you state last week you were given some very old reloading equipment and the scale wasn't repeatable? If so, sounds to me like you've been reloading for 357 a week or less therefore, should NOT be loading nor teaching anyone until you get at least a year under your belt. I have a quick story.

223-9mm shortage I couldn't find 223rem anywhere so I call up a buddy I knew horded it and asked to buy some. I was told his buddy reloaded 55gr Hornady Z max for him for their AR15. Not knowing jack squat about lands, headspace, etc because I didn't reload at the time if the bolt didn't close I made that sucker close! I had rounds that wouldn't fire, rounds that hit all over hells half acre and thought it was the gun/scope. Once I got a little more serious about shooting I tried 55gr factory V max and put 5 in an inch and thought man maybe it was this guys bullets the gun didn't like. Well I found 5 of those bullets from probably 10yrs ago and now that I know what I'm doing the headspace or the COAL was way off on these rounds for the hard closing bolt, powder charge must have been all over the place to send them high, low, etc and guess what? those 55gr green tip bullets he stuffed in there were the exact same as the 55gr factory bullets that shot well for me. I actually remember the bolt being hard to lift after firing but I didn't know what was going on. I sit back and think man I was an idiot and I could have hurt myself and my 13yo nephew I let shoot that rifle. NEVER AGAIN!

When I first started reloading I asked an old timer (almost 80yo) who has more guns than most of us combined and this guy loads for some weird stuff and has for along time for help. I had issues with bullets seated to book spec being hard to close the bolt, etc so he says bring me all your rounds and he measures them up and says well your brass wasn't the same length do you have a trimmer and I didn't at the time so he says ill pull these and trim the cases and load them a little shorter for ya to what I load for my match rifle. He asks what powder is in the rounds and I tell him and he says he loads the same and the charge. Having a very good memory I knew his charge was over my manual but not wanting to be rude I let him pull and reload about 25rounds and he gave them back to me and I put them in a ziplock baggy with a note do not use! I found that baggy in a cabinet 3 weeks ago and its still sitting there 2yrs later waiting to be pulled, powder tossed, primer punched out and reloaded. This guys been loading since before most of us have been born and I'm 99% sure he gave me good rounds but that 1% could hurt you or someone else.

I too wanted to reload for friends when I started out and thought I was helping people out but soon realized from the great folks on here that it wasn't the brightest idea. I wont even let my own family shoot a reload unless I'm watching let alone a stranger. I had a guy offer to pay me for 45-70 just trap door loads for a marlin and I said NOPE! I could have made enough $ to buy more components maybe double what it cost me to make them but not worth it! I load for myself and once in a blue moon a friend will shoot them with me watching incase my some screw up they are seated too long or pressure signs occur then we are done. You may think you know what your doing but in reality non of us do. It only takes one time of the GF saying dinner is ready and you throw 2 charges in that big ole 357 case and now someone is in the ER.

Sorry for sounding like a complete Richard but always take the advice these fine folks have to offer and tell that little voice in the back of your head saying it will be okay hes my friend to take a hike. My best friend abandoned me cause his new set of friends didn't think the shooting guns, hunting, fishing hillbilly life was cool. I haven't talked to him in 8 months and ive made attempts too. If someone's own family will screw you over be sure a friend will too.

 

[Ru4real]

Sounds like the "Skeeter Skelton" load....

Good article! Thanks for the link.

 

[snazz93]

I will weigh some finished rounds when I get home, ill probably only get to postimg,it tomorrow pm. I only have 2 boxes of nickel plated brass loaded. (I assume they're slightly heavier/slightly less consistent.) I could weight the half box of factory ammo I have, but Its 142 grain, and I have no clue what fiocchi uses for powder. Would be intersting to see consistency though. I also check my dropper before each 50 round batch. So far its never been off. I always figured worst case, if it was I'd pull my last batch apart and start over. I weigh them more or less to double check for double loads/squibs. I also look at then with a flashlight before seating. One last thing. I love the advice no matter how harsh. So thanks all!

 

[Varminterror]

Weighing finished rounds will tell you nothing about 38spcl/357mag. Unless you know the dude sorted cases and bullets to 0.0grn, you're not learning anything at all about the actual charge weights. Brass can have surprisingly large deviations, bullets too.

 

[Dudedog]

That's why I suggested to weigh empties to see the spread. The spread will probably pretty much show you that there is not much to be accomplished by weighing the loaded rounds.
.
Finding a double or a squib depends on the swings and the size of the charge, 13.8gr possible, 4gr not likely. With some powders a double 4gr charge would be bad.
The time weighing would be better spent checking charges more frequently when loading the ammo. IMO
Nothing wrong with weighing them after the fact I just don't think it will be very helpful in most cases with pistol ammo.
When starting a batch of pistol ammo I will set the measure and weigh the first 5 or 10 then maybe every 20th one after.
On my progressive I will do the same at the start, then check about every 40th one when I go to refill my tube type bullet feeder.
This is when I am loading midrange charges. If I am loading MAX loads or close to max I weigh more often or weigh them all.
How often is often enough? Every charge is safest but when loading large amounts of pistol ammo I would say most of us don't weigh every one.
One reason why powder check dies (if you watch them) or lockout dies are nice when using a progressive if you are aware of their limits.

And I apologize if I sound preachy or harsh, the topic of your thread may have some of us a little concerned.
Nothing wrong with it we all just want you to be safe and posting years from now helping others.


Be safe, have fun, shoot well, enjoy!

 

[Sarge7402]

Hi all, I've gotten so much advice here already, from reloading to gun reviews. I love this forum. Im new to reloading. Ive loaded quite a few 357 mags, very recently got into ,44 mag, .40 s&w, and 9mm. My neighbor cought wind and asked if I'd reload some .357 for him and I said sure. 75% of his brass is 38 special. He swears the guy that reloaded it for him in 1999 reloaded it to magnum specs. The guy did write his specs on the box. "158 lead, 13.2 2400. That seems real hot for a 38 special to me. I'm just gunna reload them back to 38. However I'm curious, can a 38 case safely actually be loaded to mag specs assuming its only being fired from a 357 magnum?

The folks that make it say that 9 something is max in .38 special. http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...owderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=9&cartridge=27 Think what you have are some Skeeter Skelton .357 loads in 38 special cases with the bullets seated out to .357 OAL. Skeeter made mention that when he got his first .357 in the early 50's that .357 brass was scarce so he loaded a bunch of 38's and seated the Thompson SWCL to the second crimping groove thus matching the OAL of his 357 cased loads

 

[Sarge7402]

From My Friend the .357

And my experience with this cartridge is by no means unusual. My friend, the late Dewey Hicks, was a fine pistol shot and avid hunter. Dewey killed both deer and coyotes with my .357 handloads. He once took an outing with a northern New Mexico rancher. Dewey wanted an elk, but the cowboy was looking for a muley buck for camp meat. He toted a worn six-inch Smith .357 in a brush-scarred hip holster but was a little worried about his ability to kill a deer with the only loads he had - six rounds of .38 Special wadcutters.

My friend presented him with a double handful of my favorite handloads, made from a recipe of the 358156 hollowpoint bullet held in its lower crimping groove by a Remington .38 Special case. The powder charge was 13.5 grains of 2400 fused with CCI Small Pistol primers. A few hours after loading up with these homebrews, the cowboy tumbled a running buck with a single shot through the spine at 50 yards.

 

[Walkalong]

Overloading a caliber has risks, regardless of what the intent is and regardless if it will be "safe" shooting overloaded .38s in a .357 gun. If they find there way into a .38 Spl (Remember Murphy's Law), it can be dangerous.

Y'all be careful out there.