Peter M. Eick
Member
This test involves different reloads, different barrel lengths and guns and commercial ammo.
First the basics facts. Lets start with the test subjects.
Gun 1) Pre-27 8 3/8” 357 magnum. 1957 production. Refinished, unfired prior to this test. Excellent condition overall. It will be called the pre-27.
Gun 2) 38/44 Outdoorsman, 6.5” 38 special, 1950 production, used, shot over 2000 times prior to this test. Excellent condition. My personal favorite N frame. Usually exceptionally accurate. Called the 38/44 OD for this test.
Gun 3) 38/44 Heavy Duty, 5”, 38 special, 1949 production, used, shot around 2000 times prior to the test. Some surface wear, but excellent mechanical condition. Very accurate overall (my favorite Heavy Duty), called the 38/44HD for the test.
Gun 4) Diamondback 4”, 38 special. 1976 production, used, shot around 45,000 times prior to this test. Worn, used, but in great shape. My first center fire, and it has been with me over 25 years. Called the diamondback for this test.
Gun 5) Detective Special, 2”, 38 special, 1976 production, new, never fired before this test. Shot very well and was surprisingly accurate. Called the Detective for this test.
The test equipment was an Oehler 35P chronograph set at 10 feet from the muzzle. Temp was 72f, winds perpendicular to the range at 5 to 10mph, Baro was 29.87, elevation is 79 feet. All shooting was done this afternoon.
The shooting procedure is to shoot a 20 shot string over the 35p and then move to the next gun. No effort was made to point the gun up or down prior to each shot. The goal was to shoot the string just like I would normally shoot at the target. The accuracy was judged by my ability to hit rocks on the berm. Being a public range, there was no practical way of switching targets between each run.
Now the standards
The bullet is always a Lasercast 158 grn LSWC.
The primers are always cci-500 primers
The cases are always starline, twice fired cases.
The press is a pro2000 using a uniflow dispenser, baffle and small micrometer.
The data is presented in a table. The first number is the highest velocity, the next is the lowest, the 3rd number is the extreme spread, the 4th number is the mean, and finally the last number is the standard deviation for the 20 shot string.
Here is the data, remember this is for a 20 shot string.
Trailboss, 4.0 grns
trailboss 4.0 10/10/2005 pre27-8 720 606 114 683 29
trailboss 4.0 10/10/2005 38/44 od 730 615 115 696 27
trailboss 4.0 10/10/2005 38/44hd 758 642 116 704 28
trailboss 4.0 10/10/2005 diamond 757 663 94 723 23
trailboss 4.0 10/10/2005 detective 702 609 93 651 25
Unique, 4.6 grns
unique 4.6 10/10/2005 pre27-8 941 778 163 843 43
unique 4.6 10/10/2005 38/44 od 993 839 154 895 42
unique 4.6 10/10/2005 38/44hd 980 855 125 925 31
unique 4.6 10/10/2005 diamond 946 843 103 893 32
unique 4.6 10/10/2005 detective 830 709 121 781 27
Universal Clays, 4.2 grns
univ. clay 4.2 10/10/2005 pre27-8 848 663 185 784 40
univ. clay 4.2 10/10/2005 38/44 od 860 699 161 797 44
univ. clay 4.2 10/10/2005 38/44hd 867 776 91 817 26
univ. clay 4.2 10/10/2005 diamond 880 755 127 811 33
univ. clay 4.2 10/10/2005 detective 763 628 135 703 35
AA2imp, 3.7 grns
aa2imp 3.7 10/10/2005 pre27-8 795 743 52 771 12
aa2imp 3.7 10/10/2005 38/44 od 832 769 63 795 18
aa2imp 3.7 10/10/2005 38/44hd 827 776 51 809 13
aa2imp 3.7 10/10/2005 diamond 820 790 30 809 10
aa2imp 3.7 10/10/2005 detective 732 707 25 720 5
Titegroup, 3.5 grns
titegroup 3.5 10/10/2005 pre27-8 799 761 38 781 11
titegroup 3.5 10/10/2005 38/44 od 846 762 84 802 26
titegroup 3.5 10/10/2005 38/44hd 840 795 45 823 14
titegroup 3.5 10/10/2005 diamond 860 799 61 827 17
titegroup 3.5 10/10/2005 detective 760 714 46 732 13
Magtech, 148 grn lead wadcutter, commercial ammo
pre27-8 732 631 101 698 26
38/44 od 750 583 167 718 34
38/44hd 767 681 86 727 20
diamond 742 679 63 716 19
detective 672 599 73 640 20
CCI Blazer 158 grn lead round nose commercial ammo
pre27-8 735 679 56 710 19
38/44 od 824 728 96 771 27
38/44hd 791 758 33 775 11
diamond 786 736 50 765 17
detective 695 658 37 675 11
General thoughts and comments:
I have a very slow pre27 8 3/8”. Interesting how it can be outrun by even a 4” diamondback in most cases. On the other hand, my 5” heavy duty is fast! It can usually out run the 6.5” outdoorsman and the 8 3/8” pre-27 nearly every time.
Trail boss is a great powder. Accurate and fluffy. I think I need about 4.2 grns to equal the blazer load. It is an accurate powder, but the SD’s are pretty high. It shoots very accurately. I could routinely hit within 3” at 70 yards out of the heavy duty or the outdoorsman.
My standard Unique load that I shot for years is HOT. Wow, I am surprised at how fast it is cooking and this is after I toned it down from 5.0 grns about a decade ago. It is quite accurate regardless of the SD numbers. Not sure why that is, but this is an accurate load.
Universal clays did not shoot well out of any of the guns. Not bad, just not as good as other powders like AA2 improved. Very good powder (AA2 that is). The AA2 load should come down maybe a tenth or so. My titegroup load is good for the 38/44’s but a bit hot for the colts. Need to back it down to about 3.2 grns overall.
I could type more, but having entered all of this data, I am tired and just want to dump it up here for you all to analyze.
First the basics facts. Lets start with the test subjects.
Gun 1) Pre-27 8 3/8” 357 magnum. 1957 production. Refinished, unfired prior to this test. Excellent condition overall. It will be called the pre-27.
Gun 2) 38/44 Outdoorsman, 6.5” 38 special, 1950 production, used, shot over 2000 times prior to this test. Excellent condition. My personal favorite N frame. Usually exceptionally accurate. Called the 38/44 OD for this test.
Gun 3) 38/44 Heavy Duty, 5”, 38 special, 1949 production, used, shot around 2000 times prior to the test. Some surface wear, but excellent mechanical condition. Very accurate overall (my favorite Heavy Duty), called the 38/44HD for the test.
Gun 4) Diamondback 4”, 38 special. 1976 production, used, shot around 45,000 times prior to this test. Worn, used, but in great shape. My first center fire, and it has been with me over 25 years. Called the diamondback for this test.
Gun 5) Detective Special, 2”, 38 special, 1976 production, new, never fired before this test. Shot very well and was surprisingly accurate. Called the Detective for this test.
The test equipment was an Oehler 35P chronograph set at 10 feet from the muzzle. Temp was 72f, winds perpendicular to the range at 5 to 10mph, Baro was 29.87, elevation is 79 feet. All shooting was done this afternoon.
The shooting procedure is to shoot a 20 shot string over the 35p and then move to the next gun. No effort was made to point the gun up or down prior to each shot. The goal was to shoot the string just like I would normally shoot at the target. The accuracy was judged by my ability to hit rocks on the berm. Being a public range, there was no practical way of switching targets between each run.
Now the standards
The bullet is always a Lasercast 158 grn LSWC.
The primers are always cci-500 primers
The cases are always starline, twice fired cases.
The press is a pro2000 using a uniflow dispenser, baffle and small micrometer.
The data is presented in a table. The first number is the highest velocity, the next is the lowest, the 3rd number is the extreme spread, the 4th number is the mean, and finally the last number is the standard deviation for the 20 shot string.
Here is the data, remember this is for a 20 shot string.
Trailboss, 4.0 grns
trailboss 4.0 10/10/2005 pre27-8 720 606 114 683 29
trailboss 4.0 10/10/2005 38/44 od 730 615 115 696 27
trailboss 4.0 10/10/2005 38/44hd 758 642 116 704 28
trailboss 4.0 10/10/2005 diamond 757 663 94 723 23
trailboss 4.0 10/10/2005 detective 702 609 93 651 25
Unique, 4.6 grns
unique 4.6 10/10/2005 pre27-8 941 778 163 843 43
unique 4.6 10/10/2005 38/44 od 993 839 154 895 42
unique 4.6 10/10/2005 38/44hd 980 855 125 925 31
unique 4.6 10/10/2005 diamond 946 843 103 893 32
unique 4.6 10/10/2005 detective 830 709 121 781 27
Universal Clays, 4.2 grns
univ. clay 4.2 10/10/2005 pre27-8 848 663 185 784 40
univ. clay 4.2 10/10/2005 38/44 od 860 699 161 797 44
univ. clay 4.2 10/10/2005 38/44hd 867 776 91 817 26
univ. clay 4.2 10/10/2005 diamond 880 755 127 811 33
univ. clay 4.2 10/10/2005 detective 763 628 135 703 35
AA2imp, 3.7 grns
aa2imp 3.7 10/10/2005 pre27-8 795 743 52 771 12
aa2imp 3.7 10/10/2005 38/44 od 832 769 63 795 18
aa2imp 3.7 10/10/2005 38/44hd 827 776 51 809 13
aa2imp 3.7 10/10/2005 diamond 820 790 30 809 10
aa2imp 3.7 10/10/2005 detective 732 707 25 720 5
Titegroup, 3.5 grns
titegroup 3.5 10/10/2005 pre27-8 799 761 38 781 11
titegroup 3.5 10/10/2005 38/44 od 846 762 84 802 26
titegroup 3.5 10/10/2005 38/44hd 840 795 45 823 14
titegroup 3.5 10/10/2005 diamond 860 799 61 827 17
titegroup 3.5 10/10/2005 detective 760 714 46 732 13
Magtech, 148 grn lead wadcutter, commercial ammo
pre27-8 732 631 101 698 26
38/44 od 750 583 167 718 34
38/44hd 767 681 86 727 20
diamond 742 679 63 716 19
detective 672 599 73 640 20
CCI Blazer 158 grn lead round nose commercial ammo
pre27-8 735 679 56 710 19
38/44 od 824 728 96 771 27
38/44hd 791 758 33 775 11
diamond 786 736 50 765 17
detective 695 658 37 675 11
General thoughts and comments:
I have a very slow pre27 8 3/8”. Interesting how it can be outrun by even a 4” diamondback in most cases. On the other hand, my 5” heavy duty is fast! It can usually out run the 6.5” outdoorsman and the 8 3/8” pre-27 nearly every time.
Trail boss is a great powder. Accurate and fluffy. I think I need about 4.2 grns to equal the blazer load. It is an accurate powder, but the SD’s are pretty high. It shoots very accurately. I could routinely hit within 3” at 70 yards out of the heavy duty or the outdoorsman.
My standard Unique load that I shot for years is HOT. Wow, I am surprised at how fast it is cooking and this is after I toned it down from 5.0 grns about a decade ago. It is quite accurate regardless of the SD numbers. Not sure why that is, but this is an accurate load.
Universal clays did not shoot well out of any of the guns. Not bad, just not as good as other powders like AA2 improved. Very good powder (AA2 that is). The AA2 load should come down maybe a tenth or so. My titegroup load is good for the 38/44’s but a bit hot for the colts. Need to back it down to about 3.2 grns overall.
I could type more, but having entered all of this data, I am tired and just want to dump it up here for you all to analyze.