38 Special Flat Nose, hard to actuate lever in 1873

[Orion8472]

I just got a Taylors Uberti 1873 the other day. I got some actual 38 Special flat nose snap caps [made from actual casings and projectiles, with polymer where the primer would be]. So I put all 10 rounds in the tube and the first several are very hard to bring up. I almost feel like I'm going to break the lever mechanism trying to get them up. About 4 rounds in, they start to raise up in the "elevator" well enough, but still not very smooth.

Has anyone else experienced this with the Uberti rifles? Surely it can't be that I'm using 38 Special instead of 357 Mag, right?

Is this just a break-in thing that will get better in time?

 

[Tommygunn]

Check out the over all length of the dummy rounds that you have. They might be a bit short? The real test of any firearm is; will it function with real ammo. A-Zoom and other "snap caps" are great for safety function checks for the action but in reality they sometimes don't really replicate true real time function.

I own a Miroku made 1866 Winchester in .38 special. I obtained some A-Zoom dummies. Loading only two in the rifle, the unusually short rounds allowed the round in the magazine to protrude into the elevator far enough to jam the mechanism. A fine screwdriver solved the problem. Those A-zooms were designed, of course, for revolvers, where OAL is not so critical.

If you examine the front of the carrier block on your rifle you'll see its chamfered so as to be able to push rounds forward as it rises in the mortice. But if the round is too short it still jams.

I know you said your rounds were made up of real shells, but perhaps they might still be made with the bullet set too deep? This is worth a check. If you have rounds that work, compare them to those causing problems.

How about the diameter of the rounds?

And how does the functioning of the rifle work when cycled empty?
I wonder, since you say it's the first few rounds that cycle hard, if maybe the magazine spring exerts too much force, somehow??
Without examining the gun, diagnosing the problem is basically sophisticated guesswork.
I hope I've been helpful, but we have people here who are more knowledgeable and might be of even more help. Perhaps one or two will chime in here.

 

[Orion8472]

Okay, it looks like you may have something there with the OAL. I took a shot of the snap cap next to the 38 Special [Winchester] I'll be using, and it does seem to be shorter. The rifle, when unloaded works well. [Snap Cap is left, Winchester is right]

As far as using the live rounds to function check, I don't like using live rounds...just in case some unlikely event of the hammer falling on accident and shooting a projectile through my apartment wall into another apartment.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Removed by poster

 

[Tommygunn]

Well, unfortunatly I doubt that difference in OAL would cause a problem. Maybe ....

As for testing with live rounds, yea I definatly understand the reluctance to use them. Only do so at a range, or someplace safe, and of course aim the gun at something that can be destroyed without problem.

Good luck with the rifle .... Uberti makes great rifles.

 

[Orion8472]

Thanks! I'll post some pics of it for you all to see.

 

[treedoc1]

"Well, unfortunatly I doubt that difference in OAL would cause a problem. Maybe ...."

No maybe's about it.
OAL does make a huge difference in running the 1873. It is chambered for .357 so the shorter length .38 does affect chambering. Especially when running the flat nose .38. Load 1.45 OAL or longer is best. (1.475)

 

[Tommygunn]

"Well, unfortunatly I doubt that difference in OAL would cause a problem. Maybe ...."

No maybe's about it.
OAL does make a huge difference in running the 1873. It is chambered for .357 so the shorter length .38 does affect chambering. Especially when running the flat nose .38. Load 1.45 OAL or longer is best. (1.475)

I was given to understand the rifle was in .38SP. If the rifle is .357 magnum, then for sure even that difference could cause a problem cycling the rifle.

EDIT: I note from another post it is a .357 magnum, so most definantly those short dummy rounds are the likely culprit.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

You can figure out for yourself if the rounds are too short.

Tommygun is correct. There is a small beveled section on the front of the carrier on all 'toggle link' rifles (1860 Henry, 1866 Winchester, 1873 Winchester). When the carrier is in the down position, a round on the carrier prevents the next round in the magazine from protruding out of the magazine. Here is a photo looking down into the carrier of my 44-40 Uberti 1873. The carrier is in the lowered position. Notice the rim of the next round in the magazine is protruding out of the magazine by just about .060 or so (the thickness of the rim).






There is a bevel on the carrier that serves to shove the next round back into the magazine as the carrier rises. This is the carrier of my Henry, but it does not matter, the carriers are designed the same way. Just as they were back in 1860. The arrow is pointing to the bevel. If a round on the carrier is too short, the next round in the magazine will protrude just a little bit too far and the bevel will not be able to sweep it back into the magazine so the carrier can travel all the way up. Since your rifle is chambered for 357 Mag, the bevel has to be long enough to be able to compensate for the shorter 38 Special rounds. Those dummy rounds of yours might be just short enough that they allow the next round in the magazine to extend just a tad too far. The fact the going gets easier when there are less rounds in the magazine suggests to me those rounds are right on the hairy edge of being too short. With less rounds in the magazine, the magazine spring is not shoving the rounds back with as much force, so if a round is right at the edge of the bevel it might be easier to shove back into the magazine.






It should be easy enough to determine this yourself, now that you know how the action works. Shine a bright light down onto the carrier and watch what happens when you work the action slowly. If the protruding round snags against the flat surface of the carrier, there's your answer.

By the way, the correct name for that bullet shape is Truncated Cone, not Flat Nose.

 

[treedoc1]

Both are 125's. Truncated is different than flat. Just like his photo of his snap cap and live round.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

38 Specials loaded with a Truncated Cone bullet on the left, Semi-Wadcutter on the right. I used to load those truncated cones for my wife all the time, when she was still shooting cowboy with me. Yes, they are 125 grains, the Semi-Wadcuter is 158 grains. Those light Truncated Cones make for very light recoil, and they feed very well through rifles that can be a little bit fussy about bullet shapes, such as a Winchester Model 1892.






These are Round Nosed, Flat Point bullets, or if you prefer, Flat Point, Round Nosed. I have seen them described either way. In any case, you want a bullet with a flat nose in rifle with a tubular magazine, such as the Winchester Model 1873 and its replicas. These bullets happen to be 44s, but it is the same idea with a 38.

 

[Orion8472]

Thanks for the replies and images. Very informative!