38 Special: Penetration vs Expansion

[ATLDave]

Micro', I read it more as Loosed' did, with him no disputing that it exists, nor even that it could be highly effective, but that it is unreliable. FWIW, and I am very far from an expert, I tend to think that sounds about right.

Which would suggest trying to get adequate (plus a little margin) penetration, then trying to get the highest chance of hydrostatic shock you can. In other words, don't accept inadequate penetration chasing shock, but if you've got penetration to spare, trying to get the chance of shock from 5% to 15% is alright.

 

[JRH6856]

OK, ATLDave, I can see it might suggest that, but there is still the "unreliable" aspect. A lot of the article talks about hunting and rifle ballistics as well as handgun ballistics. FWIW, I think reliability might be a tad more important in a self-defense round than in a hunting round...unless you are hunting dangerous game and then you're back to self-defense. Either way, I'm not going to get worked up over whether or not hydrostatic shock exists or is effective or can be made effective. I'm going to rely on other factors first.

 

[481]

OK, ATLDave, I can see it might suggest that, but there is still the "unreliable" aspect. A lot of the article talks about hunting and rifle ballistics as well as handgun ballistics. FWIW, I think reliability might be a tad more important in a self-defense round than in a hunting round...unless you are hunting dangerous game and then you're back to self-defense. Either way, I'm not going to get worked up over whether or not hydrostatic shock exists or is effective or can be made effective. I'm going to rely on other factors first.

I'm in complete agreement with you.

There is little to be gained from worrying about what an unreliable and likely trivial effect "might" contribute. As long as our JHPs give us penetration in the 14 inch (+/- 2") range and offer robust expansion, the only thing we have to worry about is putting the rounds where they count.

 

[ATLDave]

Of course. Make sure you've got adequate penetration and expansion (or initial size) to do what you want/need in terms of wounding/crush-cavity/whatever. But once you've gotten those as high as they need to be for your anticipated recipient, plus a margin of error, go for any extra whack you can get (balanced against recoil issues).

In short, don't count on shock effects. But they do exist, so why not try to get them, as long as you're not giving up more reliable factors to get them?

 

[JRH6856]

In short, don't count on shock effects. But they do exist, so why not try to get them, as long as you're not giving up more reliable factors to get them?

And there's the rub.

 

[Steve C]

The 12" FBI penetration is a guide for selecting law enforcement ammo not a requirement for ammo to be effective as many rounds that have less penetration have been proven very effective over the years. Genrally its only a one or the other issue with light calibers like the .380 but even then most HP ammo will come close to 12".

HP ammo is across the board more effective when it expands than solids and when it doesn't expand its no worse than a solid.

 

[481]

Don't matter.

If you do your part the question is null.

Eloquent, true and worth repeating.

 

[armsmaster270]

38 Federal Treasury load 110gr JHP +P+ Stopped just under the skin in the back. Slug miked at .612

 

[BAGTIC]

How many were hit by police cars? Perhaps we should put the cops on bicycles.

Perhaps we should teach them to check their field of fire.

I wonder how many people were subsequently hurt because the cops' bullets pulled another "Miami" and failed to stop the perpetrator in time.

 

[BAGTIC]

Hydro= water (fluid)
Static=immobile

"hydrostatic" water is what one finds in a bucket. Static water does not deliver any shock.

"Hydros-static shock is the creation of some gun magazine typewriter jockey who wanted to sound 'scientific'.

 

[Haywood]

Evan Marshal says Corbon DPX first and NYPD says Gold Dot 135g. JHP . Thats all the Info I need.

 

[gnb]

Can I get your opinions as to whether it would be a good or bad idea to carry flat nose .38 spl+P 158grTMJ in my snub in winter when people are wearing heavy clothes & jackets? In warmer weather I carry 135gr. Gold Dots.

 

[Pyro]

I'd rather carry a SWC than a TC-TMJ.